Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[clonegeek]

It's a creative decision that they're committed to because they think it's what's best for the character in the long term for the decades to come.

It's going to be very difficult to convince them to do the thing they don't want to do, 15 years after the fact, while it's their best selling series.

We still don't have soild data on how much ASM is selling though.

[WebLurker]

I mean we got incredibly close not too long ago with the Spencer run.

Maybe, but, if that was the intent, we saw that Marvel is still firmly anti-marriage.

Part of the reason the Wells stuff has opened an old wound. But the tide is firmly against them. They know it's unpopular (they aren't writing notes at the back of issue 1 pleading with people to give them a chance to changes they know people like). Seemingly everyone outside of their small group is on one side. It's just them holding back the horde to their own detrement at this point. It's gone any longer than I thought it could, to be sure, but when everything, the story itself, the fanbase, the other parts of the franchise, are all pushing in one direction eventually you just have to accept it as the direction.

Still, as we've seen, they don't care how much the OMD-verse is hated so long as they can keep it making a certain amount of money (and it sure seems like the series is too big to fail at this point). Also, even if the money did run out, I'm pretty sure they would try everything except bringing the marriage back to fix things (generally, years-old decisions don't affect modern sales and, as we've seen, the anti-Peter/MJ thing is practically a religious creed among the people in charge of ASM, and, allegedly, they see restoring the marriage as losing a war with the fans that they're hellbent on winning). In the big picture, OMD is an anti-brand element of the franchise (so maybe we should see this as a "lost the battle but won the war" situation), but I guess I'm not sure what the way forward would be, given that the people making OMD are hanging on in spite of all logic.

We still don't have soild data on how much ASM is selling though.

The difference between what Marvel sells shops and what customers actually buy would be a good start.

[ARkadelphia]

Does anybody else see the irony in this post or is it just me?

Loud
And
Clear

[Lairston]

H.E.A.T stands for Hal's Emerald Advancement Team(Originally Hal's Emerald Attack Team), it was founded in response to the Parallax arc written by Ron Marz.
Here's a an article about H.E.A.T, reddit post about Green Lantern's drama including H.E.A.T and H.E.A.T's website.

In addition, there was a Green Lantern board here. And the battles between HEAT members and Kyle fans was legendary.

[Mister Mets]

Maybe, but, if that was the intent, we saw that Marvel is still firmly anti-marriage.



Still, as we've seen, they don't care how much the OMD-verse is hated so long as they can keep it making a certain amount of money (and it sure seems like the series is too big to fail at this point). Also, even if the money did run out, I'm pretty sure they would try everything except bringing the marriage back to fix things (generally, years-old decisions don't affect modern sales and, as we've seen, the anti-Peter/MJ thing is practically a religious creed among the people in charge of ASM, and, allegedly, they see restoring the marriage as losing a war with the fans that they're hellbent on winning). In the big picture, OMD is an anti-brand element of the franchise (so maybe we should see this as a "lost the battle but won the war" situation), but I guess I'm not sure what the way forward would be, given that the people making OMD are hanging on in spite of all logic.



The difference between what Marvel sells shops and what customers actually buy would be a good start.

The current figures represent what customers buy in stores that use a particular system.

[Garlador]

Loud
And
Clear

Feel free to give me a proper rebuttal then instead of a drive-by mocking. I further articulated my points and explained the difference.

[clonegeek]

I have been thinking about how bringing back the marriage would increase sales. Which in all honesty it most likely would.

I think part of the problem is a lack of ambition on the part of SpideyOffice, ASM is going to sell no matter. So let's get our buddies on the book and tell stories that can easily be undone if we really wanted to. There is no sense of 'I want to be the very best' against all the other Marvel titles. Because there is no real competition against ASM among the rest of the line. If a sense of competition for what would be the number one title for Marvel, then the chances of the marriage coming back would be skyrocket.

[Xenon]

Maybe, but, if that was the intent, we saw that Marvel is still firmly anti-marriage.

Depends on whether you think they would have let him do it if not for the Substack thing or if there was always going to be some aversion. If they were going to let him then we're already in the point where it's just a matter of time. They just have to hire a non-invested in BND writer and it'll be done. If there was always going to be some aversion, then they're lying about it being a preference and not a mandate, and we'll need further opinion change or management change.

Still, as we've seen, they don't care how much the OMD-verse is hated so long as they can keep it making a certain amount of money (and it sure seems like the series is too big to fail at this point). Also, even if the money did run out, I'm pretty sure they would try everything except bringing the marriage back to fix things (generally, years-old decisions don't affect modern sales and, as we've seen, the anti-Peter/MJ thing is practically a religious creed among the people in charge of ASM, and, allegedly, they see restoring the marriage as losing a war with the fans that they're hellbent on winning). In the big picture, OMD is an anti-brand element of the franchise (so maybe we should see this as a "lost the battle but won the war" situation), but I guess I'm not sure what the way forward would be, given that the people making OMD are hanging on in spite of all logic.

Admittedly, it's taken much longer than I thought, but I also didn't think Slott's run would just keep going forever, which I think has prolonged it, but I've always had faith that OMD was doomed. Simply because the story demands it. Other Love Interests don't work. Dragging MJ through the mud won't work either. If you want to tell civilian stories with Peter Parker, you're going to do romance, and if you're going to do romance, it has to be MJ, and at that point, well, what's the point of OMD?

The difference between what Marvel sells shops and what customers actually buy would be a good start.

The current numbers are based on ComicsHub, which does represent customer sales, but only at stores that use this one particular system of software. It's impossible to tell if they're representative or how high the numbers are in an absolute manner. We know the market is down this year, but that doesn't mean much. ASM could be selling 50k and be the top of the chart or 70k and be the top of the chart, or mabye the stores that use ComicHub just tend to sell more ASM than other stores. Hard to say for sure.

I have been thinking about how bringing back the marriage would increase sales. Which in all honesty it most likely would.

I think part of the problem is a lack of ambition on the part of SpideyOffice, ASM is going to sell no matter. So let's get our buddies on the book and tell stories that can easily be undone if we really wanted to. There is no sense of 'I want to be the very best' against all the other Marvel titles. Because there is no real competition against ASM among the rest of the line. If a sense of competition for what would be the number one title for Marvel, then the chances of the marriage coming back would be skyrocket.

The thing is at this point while It may increase sales a bit I don't think the impact would be tremendous. How many people did they lose? How many are willing to come back? Now, personally, because I think removing the anchor that is OMD from the title would lead to better stories, and better stories would lead to more sales, I think would have a growth effect overall, but that's kind of an indirect effect. But regardless they should still do it because the story demands it.

[Garlador]

The thing is at this point while It may increase sales a bit I don't think the impact would be tremendous. How many people did they lose? How many are willing to come back? Now, personally, because I think removing the anchor that is OMD from the title would lead to better stories, and better stories would lead to more sales, I think would have a growth effect overall, but that's kind of an indirect effect. But regardless they should still do it because the story demands it.

Can only speak for myself, but the continued existence of the OMD-verse is THE reason I no longer buy the book, and correcting it and restoring their relationship is the thing that would have me putting dollars down again.

I said I’d do that with DC’s treatment of Superman and Wally’s marriages, and I’ve been true to my word.

[godisawesome]

I have been thinking about how bringing back the marriage would increase sales. Which in all honesty it most likely would.

I think part of the problem is a lack of ambition on the part of SpideyOffice, ASM is going to sell no matter. So let's get our buddies on the book and tell stories that can easily be undone if we really wanted to. There is no sense of 'I want to be the very best' against all the other Marvel titles. Because there is no real competition against ASM among the rest of the line. If a sense of competition for what would be the number one title for Marvel, then the chances of the marriage coming back would be skyrocket.

I actually think that the writers for Spider-Man have been ambitious - but they’ve had to funnel that ambition away from Peter and have frequently found that editorial has no real interest in anything with long term consequences or investment, resulting in an almost ADHD approach to the supporting cast and villains and a thoroughly short-term and always “undo-able” gimmicks for Peter. That’s how you get exponential growth in symbiotes and Spider-characters, but almost no dedication to them, alongside a bunch of short-term villain-focused stories that seem to often fail to have long term impact.

And yeah, I think undoing OMD would likely lead to *at minimum* a short term boost in sales again - if for no other reason than the undoing itself would be a “landmark” story that collectors and observers often feel obligated to grab, regardless of their feelings on the original story, providing a great moment to try hooking them for a little longer… a lot like how OMD was a must-grab for a lot of people in spite of its infamous reputation, and how BND posed a bunch of questions that occupied people for a while.

And I think that having possible changes you can make Peter now become more attractive to check out - even short-term ones, because you never know when it *could* have a long term impact.

[Jekyll]

One of these days I hope there is a Nick Spencer tell all that is released. I am really curious what his complete plan was for his run and how editorial got involved/pushed him out of Marvel. Was it solely because of his substack stuff?

[exile001]

One of these days I hope there is a Nick Spencer tell all that is released. I am really curious what his complete plan was for his run and how editorial got involved/pushed him out of Marvel. Was it solely because of his substack stuff?

Remember, the only official line we've had is that he chose to leave Marvel for Substack, who were just throwing silly money at comic book creatives at the time.

The changes to the latter parts of the run may have been a result of Spencer telling Marvel/Lowe he was ditching them a year early for all we know.

[Garlador]

I swear, re-reading older issues is DEATH for the current storyline.



"I'll wait for you as long as you need. Or until the stars turn cold and fall from the sky. Whichever comes first."

The way they've been written lately just gets more and more infuriating the further along I get revisiting older, better runs.

[PCN24454]

I swear, re-reading older issues is DEATH for the current storyline.



"I'll wait for you as long as you need. Or until the stars turn cold and fall from the sky. Whichever comes first."

The way they've been written lately just gets more and more infuriating the further along I get revisiting older, better runs.

I just thought this line was funny.

[primenumber101]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if turns out one of the executives or editors from Marvel personally hates Peter Parker and gone his/her way to hate-write on Peter.