Should the Rey film go for better ship designs for the fighters, capital ships?

[ChrisIII]

The prequels sort of had their own 'look' but paid tribute to many of the OT designs at the same time, especially once the Clone Wars started.


One of the more disappointing aspects of the sequels for me was that apart from some stuff in TLJ like Kylo's fighter and some of the Resistance fleet), they didn't really bother with a visual design for the Resistance or the First Order that was all that distinct from the OT at all-the X-wings and TIE fighters were barely different at all apart from some small cosmetic changes (Like the X-wing engines, mostly borrowed from Ralph McQuarrie's older designs) despite it being a longer gap than between the PT and OT. Perhaps the worst visual sin were the "Final Order" Star Destroyers, which pretty much just took the ANH style destroyer from "Rogue One" and "Solo", made it slightly larger, added a laser and some barely visible red paint to some of it's edges.

I know the Resistance were basically low-budget even compared to the Rebellion and were largely composed of out-of-date ships (Although as I said TLJ did have some decent redesigns of the major rebel ships) but a lot of it just seemed kind of lazy.


Since it takes place nearly two decades later should there be some changes?

[Kirby101]

I think they have to walk the line between good design and making it look like Star Wars for the fans. So they won't go to far from the OT.
But I also don't think it will matter for the success of the movie either way.

[Ascended]

I think a more distinct visual identity would have been good, but as Kirby101 points out, it still has to be recognizably "Star Wars."

We can likely blame nostalgia being such a major driver for Force Awakens. That movie wanted to get back to basics and course-correct in a bad way.

In-universe we can likely blame economic instability stemming from decades of wide-scale military spending and action.

I think business groups like the Techno Union and Banking Guild were either destroyed by the Empire, crippled by Imperial-era policy, or fell apart during the Clone Wars, right? We know entire planets were stripped and ruined, first by the Separatists and then by the Imps and finally by the First Order. And we know the Republic didn't provide strong leadership or care much for what happened beyond the mid-rim, and didn't put much effort into military development anyway. The Imperial remnants wouldn't have the resources for much military R&D either, and what they did have likely went into starkiller base (which I believe had already been planned/started).

I feel like it's entirely possible that even decades after the Empire died, the galaxy was still reeling economically and development had slowed to a crawl. It takes years for a single country to recover from an economic depression even with good leadership, how much longer and more complicated would that recovery be when we're talking about thousands upon thousands of planets that are all co-dependent on each other, and leadership that has good intentions but limited ability?

[j9ac9k]

I agree that it should reflect the state of the galaxy, which is a larger world-building question - whether the galaxy is experiencing economic prosperity or difficulties, is this a new renaissance where designs are more creative and fun, etc or a time when resources are limited and designs have to be more bare-bones and merely functional? Will there be a nostalgia for designs that harken back to the Old Republic because that's the era the new regime wants to put forth, etc? (like how Washington DC is based on Greek and Roman architecture) It should make sense whatever way they go.

[ChrisIII]

I suppose the Final Order ships do sort of have an excuse, according to the Vader comics the ships originated at the point the classic Imperial Star Destroyer was the dominant design at the time, and like the Death Star were probably delayed until the technology could be perfected/miniaturized to Star Destroyer scale, not to mention what happened to the Empire and Palpatine himself probably had a role to play in their delay.

[Frontier]

Hopefully they come up with more original plots and antagonists.

[Arsenal]

I think a more distinct visual identity would have been good, but as Kirby101 points out, it still has to be recognizably "Star Wars."

We can likely blame nostalgia being such a major driver for Force Awakens. That movie wanted to get back to basics and course-correct in a bad way.

In-universe we can likely blame economic instability stemming from decades of wide-scale military spending and action.

I think business groups like the Techno Union and Banking Guild were either destroyed by the Empire, crippled by Imperial-era policy, or fell apart during the Clone Wars, right? We know entire planets were stripped and ruined, first by the Separatists and then by the Imps and finally by the First Order. And we know the Republic didn't provide strong leadership or care much for what happened beyond the mid-rim, and didn't put much effort into military development anyway. The Imperial remnants wouldn't have the resources for much military R&D either, and what they did have likely went into starkiller base (which I believe had already been planned/started).

I feel like it's entirely possible that even decades after the Empire died, the galaxy was still reeling economically and development had slowed to a crawl. It takes years for a single country to recover from an economic depression even with good leadership, how much longer and more complicated would that recovery be when we're talking about thousands upon thousands of planets that are all co-dependent on each other, and leadership that has good intentions but limited ability?

It does make sense that the New Republic's demilitarization efforts post GCW would stall military development, but I can also see a scenario where the First Order Crisis could shift it to the opposite extreme with a much great focus on military R&D.

[thwhtGuardian]

Hopefully they come up with more original plots and antagonists.

Yeah, the look of the ships wasn't even on my radar as far as improving the sequels.

[Ascended]

It does make sense that the New Republic's demilitarization efforts post GCW would stall military development, but I can also see a scenario where the First Order Crisis could shift it to the opposite extreme with a much great focus on military R&D.

Perhaps the Republic did shift focus back to military matters once they realized the First Order was more than another ragtag group of Imperial remnants. Force Awakens does make mention of a fleet the Republic had in defensive orbit around the core worlds. But when starkiller base blows up those planets the fleet is destroyed too. We never even get to see them, so we don't know if they were a bare-bones "function over form" thing, like you'd see in a struggling economy, or something with a little more flash and dazzle.

[ChrisIII]

Poe was part of that fleet as well-he even identifies as such when he prank calls Hux in TLJ.


If they can get Isaac back to I'm guessing he'd be the "new Leia" the last two films were pretty much building him up to-at least as a military commander, not her other job as politician which we never got to see much of (compared to her mother and foster father).

[Jackalope89]

I will say, the bombers that the Resistance had were incredibly bad and stupid. Whereas the Rebel Alliance had the Y-Wing, which while slow, hit hard and effectively. Without the weaknesses of the Resistance's own bombers. Also, Galen Marek wants his call sign back.

Character wise, well, too much to list to fix. Even Mark Hamill himself had numerous issues with the sequel trilogy, a good part revolved around Luke, obviously, but also the overall world building of those 3 movies as well.

[Ascended]

If they can get Isaac back to I'm guessing he'd be the "new Leia" the last two films were pretty much building him up to-at least as a military commander, not her other job as politician which we never got to see much of (compared to her mother and foster father).

That's my hope and expectation if he does return.

Poe is really the easiest character to deal with. Just keep him moving in the direction he was already pointed in. Not much need to course-correct or change anything. He helps build a new government in Leia's image, which does right by Poe and puts Leia's legacy back where it should be.

Finn and Rey are gonna need some work. Easy enough, I suppose, to sweep the toxic Ren thing under the rug and put Rey properly on the path of building a new Jedi in Luke's honor and memory. That'll give Luke the proper positioning within the fiction that he deserves and get Rey moving in the right direction, but it'll take some clever moves to get folks to forget Reylo and stop holding it against the character.

Finn is a little harder to figure out. Do you lean into him being Force sensitive and have him help Rey? Do you have him go into military/political leadership with Poe? Do his own thing? What would that be?

[godisawesome]

That's my hope and expectation if he does return.

Poe is really the easiest character to deal with. Just keep him moving in the direction he was already pointed in. Not much need to course-correct or change anything. He helps build a new government in Leia's image, which does right by Poe and puts Leia's legacy back where it should be.

Finn and Rey are gonna need some work. Easy enough, I suppose, to sweep the toxic Ren thing under the rug and put Rey properly on the path of building a new Jedi in Luke's honor and memory. That'll give Luke the proper positioning within the fiction that he deserves and get Rey moving in the right direction, but it'll take some clever moves to get folks to forget Reylo and stop holding it against the character.

Finn is a little harder to figure out. Do you lean into him being Force sensitive and have him help Rey? Do you have him go into military/political leadership with Poe? Do his own thing? What would that be?

I actually think Finn has an easier time being repackaged than Rey; a lot of LFL’s sabotage of their unwanted first male lead was mostly just trying to gaslight the audience about what happened with him in TFA and just bury him in obscurity, which means you could resurrect a bunch of his potential from TFA, plug in learning to be a Jedi, and probably just give him a hook for his own stuff afterwards - like chasing down leads for the final hundred or so children the First Order kidnapped.

Rey strikes me as being a bit harder, because so much of her humanity was hollowed out and made dependent on serving Kylo’s story in TLJ that the last minute attempt to reorient things for her as a Palpatine while LFL still forbade having her react to Kylo in a realistic way left her a diet Luke, slotting into “his place” with his last name but no real connection to him, and not allowed to have a believable dark side temptation because LFL couldn’t let her hate Kylo.

…which is where I get these ideas that you could do for Rey:

- Make it so she’s not a good trainer, and thus can’t replace Luke as the teaching member of the New Jedi Order; she could struggle to help Finn figure things out enough that they decide he should just use a Holocron and that she’s not cut out for teaching. What is she? A “Champion” of the Order who can help rebuild it by…
- Tracking down some of Luke’s old students/associates and refounding the Order by rebuilding the organization; just say that Luke worked with about two other would-be-Jedi using old Legends IPs like Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade, and maybe had two other students frozen in carbonite, plus maybe Ezra, Ahsoka (even though her voice cameo in TROS might mean she’s dead) and Cal or any other Old Jedi Order guys who Luke met up with, so Rey has to get these veterans to take up the lightsaber they put aside rescue some student-types, and restart things that way.
- Have her be traumatized by the Dyad connection to Kylo/Ben, lose sleep and suffer some other trauma effects as the Dyad and her connection with Ben is recontextualized as an unwanted, parasitic draining of her will by Sith magic; basically, only reference her connection to Ben by admitting to the audience that he was an utter monster to her and that she never would have sympathized with him without someone else forcing her to (LFL in real life, Snoke/Palpatine in fiction).
- And then, like with Finn, give her a good enough personal story and hook that people want to see more of her stories - a new rival dark side order to the Jedi, a quiet establishment of a healthy romance with Finn, some Jedi reforms to make, etc.

…

…But if Disney wanted her fixed up totally, and didn’t mind casting some shade around Hollywood and movie critic world, and was willing to take a little **** even from people who’d appreciate the move…

- Have some kind of retconned in story where she finds out she is Luke’s daughter rescued by Palpatine’s kids, and thus is a Skywalker by blood, and give her a more genuinely tragic and hurt reaction to that at first before adjusting to it, including perhaps not being able to talk to Force Ghost Luke as long as she struggles with the pain of the revelation.

It would be awkward, weird, and enrage some TLJ fans… but we all know you!d make more money and stuff with a Rey who was Luke’s daughter even after all that, and to be blunt, TLJ set the standards for convoluted nonsense far lower than that anyways.

[Ascended]

I actually think Finn has an easier time being repackaged than Rey; [just] resurrect a bunch of his potential from TFA, plug in learning to be a Jedi, and probably just give him a hook for his own stuff afterwards - like chasing down leads for the final hundred or so children the First Order kidnapped

That'd work, at least short term.

Rey strikes me as being a bit harder, because so much of her humanity was hollowed out and made dependent on serving KyloÂ’s story in TLJ

You hit on this yourself, but just saying that whole mess was the influence of the dyad/Palpatine/whatever is as clean a solution as we're gonna get. It's a simple, easy to understand workaround and it gets Rey free of it while acknowledging the experience as the domestic violence allegory it is, should they want to use that in any way.

Â…which is where I get these ideas that you could do for Rey:

- Have her be traumatized by the Dyad connection to Kylo/Ben, lose sleep and suffer some other trauma effects as the Dyad and her connection with Ben is recontextualized as an unwanted, parasitic draining of her will by Sith magic

I'd say this was the immediate aftermath of tRoS. But fifteen years later, Rey's moved on. And if they feel the need to protect Kylo Ren they could say it was influencing him too, though I'd dislike that personally. Just own the fact he was a little ****.

- Have some kind of retconned in story where she finds out she is LukeÂ’s daughter

You're not thinking silly enough man. We know her dad was a Palpatine clone. But what do we know of Rey's mom? Rey's mom could be Luke's daughter, making Rey the super sayian offspring of both bloodlines.

Honestly, I could see some Hollywood type thinking that's a good idea. Or something to make Rey a Skywalker by blood anyway.

....it actually does make the story of Rey's parents interesting, I'll admit. Maybe Luke's Jedi daughter takes down a hidden remnant cloning faculty where she meets/rehabilitates a failed and discarded Palpatine clone. Doomed romance ensues. Real Romeo/Juliet.

It must be late, this is almost sounding acceptable.

[ChrisIII]

I will say, the bombers that the Resistance had were incredibly bad and stupid. Whereas the Rebel Alliance had the Y-Wing, which while slow, hit hard and effectively. Without the weaknesses of the Resistance's own bombers. Also, Galen Marek wants his call sign back.

Character wise, well, too much to list to fix. Even Mark Hamill himself had numerous issues with the sequel trilogy, a good part revolved around Luke, obviously, but also the overall world building of those 3 movies as well.

We do eventually get some Y-wings in ROS-Zorri in particular uses one to finish off one of the Destroyers.


One weird thing about the ST was also how the B-wing was used. The Rebel transports and the desert airspeeders seen in TFA and TLJ both seem to be variants of it....but when the actual B-wings show up again in ROS they barely do anything more than in ROTJ. At least ROTJ has the excuse of the special effects limitations of the time (The models were too thin and photographed poorly)