Cancel Culture and Movies

[Jokerz79]

Also want to point out something Jonathan Frakes once said I think it was around the time of Insurrection's release, he and his lovely wife Genie Francis were doing a red-carpet event for Trek and he said, "Gene Roddenberry was a Proud Card Carrying Liberal". Why did he feel the need to state the obvious? Because in the 90's the right succeeds in demonizing the term "liberal" went from meaning open minded, compassionate, and accepting to degenerate, amoral, deceptive, and perverted. He wanted to not allow the right to use the term like that and wanted to point out Gene and Trek was Liberal.

It got so bad Democrats namely I remember Hillary Clinton around the time she ran for the Senate started telling people she was "Progressive" vs being "Liberal" and other Dems followed suit they allowed the right to twist the meaning in the public lexicon.

As someone who always described themselves as Liberal and who lived through the 90's I want to say woke isn't new it's just the new form of Liberal and demonizing it is also not new.

[Eskana]

I think we definitely see this more from one side, but it's both sides of the aisle that dive into the ridiculous complaining and cancel culture. There is a major YouTube media and movie reviewer whom I used to follow, but I stopped when I couldn't take her personal reviews anymore... she would review a movie and have no problems with it except she felt that it should have had more diversity. Like, she would even say the actors all did great jobs, but that the movie wasn't good because of what WASN'T in the movie. That mentality just doesn't make sense to me. Review a movie based on its merits, not on the movie you think it should have been in your head.

That applies a lot to older movies and shows as well. I definitely agree with what people are saying- the internet would explode if Xena came out today- but at the same time, you have things like people apologizing for or ignoring "Gone with the Wind" (deserving winner of multiple awards, and still the highest-grossing movie of all time, when adjusted for inflation) or Disney trying to erase "The Song of the South" (which, by the way, does NOT portray enslaved people at all.) People want the past to be this perfect thing, and if it's not, they'll either hide or or discredit it. Just accept that people weren't perfect then, and they aren't perfect now. And we're all trying to get better.

The door swings both ways. People just need to chill out on the internet. No one is "ruining your childhood" by recasting Ariel. And no one's promoting racism if they say "Gone with the Wind" is a good movie.

[Powerboy]

I think we definitely see this more from one side, but it's both sides of the aisle that dive into the ridiculous complaining and cancel culture. There is a major YouTube media and movie reviewer whom I used to follow, but I stopped when I couldn't take her personal reviews anymore... she would review a movie and have no problems with it except she felt that it should have had more diversity. Like, she would even say the actors all did great jobs, but that the movie wasn't good because of what WASN'T in the movie. That mentality just doesn't make sense to me. Review a movie based on its merits, not on the movie you think it should have been in your head.

That applies a lot to older movies and shows as well. I definitely agree with what people are saying- the internet would explode if Xena came out today- but at the same time, you have things like people apologizing for or ignoring "Gone with the Wind" (deserving winner of multiple awards, and still the highest-grossing movie of all time, when adjusted for inflation) or Disney trying to erase "The Song of the South" (which, by the way, does NOT portray enslaved people at all.) People want the past to be this perfect thing, and if it's not, they'll either hide or or discredit it. Just accept that people weren't perfect then, and they aren't perfect now. And we're all trying to get better.

The door swings both ways. People just need to chill out on the internet. No one is "ruining your childhood" by recasting Ariel. And no one's promoting racism if they say "Gone with the Wind" is a good movie.

As a Liberal, one thing (well, more than one) that bothers me about Liberalism is the inability to grasp history. Another is that us liberals are far more likely to say that morals are not absolutes. They are social constructs that change and develop (or de-develop?) over time. We say that. But then we utterly ignore it and go on about some movie made in 1930 being racist or Samuel Clements, one of the more not racist people of his time being a racist because, of course, his attitudes, based on his time and the knowledge that existed then, would be very racist in 2023 and all that matters is right now, this moment. All of history should have the knowledge and social attitudes of 2023. If they don't, racists, sexists, whatever.

Another, and I saw an expert complaining about this, is things like even experts now refusing to say that the ancient Egyptians were very dark-skinned but not black because they get accused of racism for simply stating a scientific fact. I even hesitate hesitate to say it for the same reason.

But I have noticed that, even among liberals, there is a growing dissention that you cannot have a real discussion about A,B,Z if there are certain taboo factors you cannot even say.

But, yes. If you were a child when the Little Mermaid came out, you're childhood is not ruined because a remake made her black. And, if it does ruin it for you, you might consider that you had racist attitudes then or now.

Admitting Gone with the Wind was a great movie in a variety of ways does not make you a racist. It just means you can get by not a social product of the early 20th century and still enjoy and evaluate a movie on its own merits.

Ironically, I'm having the same issue. I'm a Baseball fan, my one sports weakness, and I find myself still saying "the Cleveland Indians". I totally agree with the reasons for the name change but my little Baseball fan heart just resists it.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

speaking of horror movies, Sleepyaway Camp would be bashed to hell if it were made today.

[Agent Z]

Those same people complaining about Peach will dishonestly tell you they don't have anything against strong women by citing Aliens or Terminator 2. However, they're lying to themselves. If any of those films had come out today there'd definitely be an uproar.

There's a lot of reasons for this. One is due to social media, as TC stated. The other is money. A lot of these "anti-woke/SJW" types don't believe what they're selling but it sells, so they keep it up. It's a pretty good grift, actually.

They'll say there issue is that Peach in the movie isn't "feminine" because of her attitude and the change is anti-feminine. These same people have no problem with archetypes that were specifically created to mock or demonize feminine women.

[Nathaniel Gray]

I think we definitely see this more from one side, but it's both sides of the aisle that dive into the ridiculous complaining and cancel culture. There is a major YouTube media and movie reviewer whom I used to follow, but I stopped when I couldn't take her personal reviews anymore... she would review a movie and have no problems with it except she felt that it should have had more diversity. Like, she would even say the actors all did great jobs, but that the movie wasn't good because of what WASN'T in the movie. That mentality just doesn't make sense to me. Review a movie based on its merits, not on the movie you think it should have been in your head.

That applies a lot to older movies and shows as well. I definitely agree with what people are saying- the internet would explode if Xena came out today- but at the same time, you have things like people apologizing for or ignoring "Gone with the Wind" (deserving winner of multiple awards, and still the highest-grossing movie of all time, when adjusted for inflation) or Disney trying to erase "The Song of the South" (which, by the way, does NOT portray enslaved people at all.) People want the past to be this perfect thing, and if it's not, they'll either hide or or discredit it. Just accept that people weren't perfect then, and they aren't perfect now. And we're all trying to get better.

The door swings both ways. People just need to chill out on the internet. No one is "ruining your childhood" by recasting Ariel. And no one's promoting racism if they say "Gone with the Wind" is a good movie.

Very well said. Thank you!

[Kirby101]

The door swings both ways. People just need to chill out on the internet. No one is "ruining your childhood" by recasting Ariel. And no one's promoting racism if they say "Gone with the Wind" is a good movie.

Gone with the Wind is a well made movie, but it was a racists apologetic for slavery. It was always "lost cause" propaganda, even then.Triumph of the Will is also well made, but, you know. ..
I get giving latitude to movies from the 20s or 30s that have some cringe-worthy portrayals today, but Gone with the Wind or Song of the South, (which had negative reactions when it was made) are not good examples for your point. Same with Birth of a Nation, a movie that glorifies the KKK.

[ed2962]

Those same people complaining about Peach will dishonestly tell you they don't have anything against strong women by citing Aliens or Terminator 2. However, they're lying to themselves. If any of those films had come out today there'd definitely be an uproar.

There's a lot of reasons for this. One is due to social media, as TC stated. The other is money. A lot of these "anti-woke/SJW" types don't believe what they're selling but it sells, so they keep it up. It's a pretty good grift, actually.

Exactly this. And I think it's worth noting that more often than not, the thing they're decrying as "woke" is either somehow related to nerd culture or remakes of kids cartoons. There's any number of sitcoms, TV dramas and theatrical movies that will deal with social issues, and never get criticized. I think it is cuz simply you won't get as many rage clicks complaining about Law and Order's latest "ripped from the headlines" episode as you will shit talking Batman.

[Username taken]

This video kind of highlights the absolute silliness of the Mario situation.

How so many of these chucks were attacking Mario pre-release as being woke only for a lot of them to say something different when the film released.

[Username taken]

Gone with the Wind is a well made movie, but it was a racists apologetic for slavery. It was always "lost cause" propaganda, even then.Triumph of the Will is also well made, but, you know. ..
I get giving latitude to movies from the 20s or 30s that have some cringe-worthy portrayals today, but Gone with the Wind or Song of the South, (which had negative reactions when it was made) are not good examples for your point. Same with Birth of a Nation, a movie that glorifies the KKK.

Exactly.

Song of the South was criticized by black people upon release in 1946.

Gone with the Wind was lost cause propaganda and it’s fair to call it such since that’s what it was.

[skyvolt2000]

Exactly this. And I think it's worth noting that more often than not, the thing they're decrying as "woke" is either somehow related to nerd culture or remakes of kids cartoons. There's any number of sitcoms, TV dramas and theatrical movies that will deal with social issues, and never get criticized. I think it is cuz simply you won't get as many rage clicks complaining about Law and Order's latest "ripped from the headlines" episode as you will shit talking Batman.

Those will get free passes generally if the one doing the lecturing is a WHITE Straight MALE.
Or it's a show that they forget about because it's not rerunning everywhere.

Married with Children would not last 1 episode if it came out today. A show co-created by a BLACK MAN.

Facts of life show-especially the episode where Natalie has sex for the first time and the behind the scenes fact that Blair was suppose to be the one and her actress refused and did not appear in that episode. Or the Blair dealing with having KKK members her family.

And how would OLD school Degrassi survive?? That was diverse for the heck of it. Heads would explode over Yick Yu.

Or the number of comics that the grifters love to ignore.

How many comics have we seen be free of black folks until it's time for the racism story or hood story? Hi Peter Parker-especially when Rocket Racer shows up. Hi white version of Bloodsport in Superman.

Archie comics-Archie juggling two girls? Later Katy Kane, Valerie, Sabrina & Cheryl? How Betty was suppose to have a black boyfriend and the writer Matt Wayne (Milestone) was fired and the new guy was made WHITE (but you could TELL he was black because he had a black hairstyle).

Batman Seduction of the Gun where BLACK kids educated Tim Drake about guns and that issue was made in relation to a WB executive losing their kid to guns.

Oh lets not forget Milestone.
While they focus on the black founders-they ignore Static's run-where he had 3 LGBTQA+ writers. Including a transgender one who created the first trans character under the DC banner.

[Catlady in training]

˄˄˄ Some people who claimed to be fans of Sandman have been screaming about the TV series being too woke last year. They must have forgotten how woke the comics were 30 years ago.

[Username taken]

˄˄˄ Some people who claimed to be fans of Sandman have been screaming about the TV series being too woke last year. They must have forgotten how woke the comics were 30 years ago.

Oh man, Vertigo as a whole would have been deemed SUPER-WOKE today.

Milestone media(as Skyvolt pointed out) wasn't just black comics, there was deep LGBTIQ representation in the comics written by LGBTIQ writers. That was over 30 years ago.

The Sandman thing was so crazy that people were arguing with Neil Gaiman himself, the actual creator of the work. Stuff is wild these days.

[Alan2099]

speaking of horror movies, Sleepyaway Camp would be bashed to hell if it were made today.

I don't even think Psycho would be safe or Silence of the Lambs would be safe.

[Username taken]

I don't even think Psycho would be safe or Silence of the Lambs would be safe.

Jonathan Demme got a LOT of heat when Silence of the Lambs was released if I remember correctly.

Even back then, there was huge controversy around how LGBTIQ people were depicted in the film (it was actually much worse in the book).

There was a loud protest against the film outside of the Oscars in 92 and some folks got arrested.