Thor vs. The Avengers (MCU versions of everyone)

[The Arbiter]

Two scenarios. 1: Thor with only Mjolnir. 2: Thor with only Stormbreaker.
Fight takes place in new york.

versus his following teammates:

Iron Man
War Machine
Hulk
Iron Spider
Captain America

[KJS]

I think the instinctive reply would be a Thor win with either weapon, but it’s probably a bit more complicated than that.

We know Hulk can make him bleed, but Thor can play keep away from him. But that will bring him into conflict with Iron Man, who fought four-stone Thanos fairly impressively and made him bleed. Moreover, Thor’s lightning charges Iron Man up and he’ll have War Machine helping him in the air.

Iron Spider and Captain America are largely irrelevant.

I’m gonna call it a toss-up.

[Postmania]

A fun idea is that Cap could try and contest Thor's control of Mjolnir perhaps. He is worthy after all

[big_adventure]

I think the instinctive reply would be a Thor win with either weapon, but it’s probably a bit more complicated than that.

We know Hulk can make him bleed, but Thor can play keep away from him. But that will bring him into conflict with Iron Man, who fought four-stone Thanos fairly impressively and made him bleed. Moreover, Thor’s lightning charges Iron Man up and he’ll have War Machine helping him in the air.

Iron Spider and Captain America are largely irrelevant.

I’m gonna call it a toss-up.

As of Ragnarok, once he got his first partial upgrade he was casually kicking Hulk's ass, without a weapon at all. He only lost thanks to the slave disc. Hulk isn't a threat.

Thor with Stormbreaker one-shot decapitates Thanos. That's a crapton more than Tony did or can take. I don't think Tony can dish enough damage to take Thor down before he gets one-shot.

[KJS]

As of Ragnarok, once he got his first partial upgrade he was casually kicking Hulk's ass, without a weapon at all. He only lost thanks to the slave disc. Hulk isn't a threat.

Thor with Stormbreaker one-shot decapitates Thanos. That's a crapton more than Tony did or can take. I don't think Tony can dish enough damage to take Thor down before he gets one-shot.

That was a post-snap, badly injured, stoneless, retired Thanos not even attempting to defend himself. Iron Man against peak Thanos, with four stones, made him bleed, after using his armour to easily block Power Stone blasts, lift a colossal piece of machinery in an often overlooked feat of strength, and tank the small moon he threw at him.

Also what Thor did to Hulk later doesn’t change the fact that he was made to bleed by him earlier. Thor can be hurt, is the point.

We’ve seen Thor having been beaten to a bloody mess by Thanos off-screen, then lose easily to him when trying to attack him again.

Iron Man can also make blades, which we’ve seen penetrate Thor when Loki stabbed him. Iron Man can also create massive energy blasts that sent Cull Obsidian flying.

MCU Iron Man is canonically presented as being far closer to Thor than people give him credit for.

And, to reiterate, this is just Iron Man. Thor has Hulk, War Machine and some fodder to deal with as well here. It only takes Hulk and War Machine to keep him busy for a mere moment for an Iron Man attack to do some serious damage.

[Jcogginsa]

That was a post-snap, badly injured, stoneless, retired Thanos not even attempting to defend himself. Iron Man against peak Thanos, with four stones, made him bleed, after using his armour to easily block Power Stone blasts, lift a colossal piece of machinery in an often overlooked feat of strength, and tank the small moon he threw at him.

Thor also threw Stormbreaker through a blast powered by all of the infinity stones and into Thanos' chest. That's some heavy damage.

(Also "You should have went for the head" can be read as an indication that doing so would have killed Thanos)

[KJS]

Thor also threw Stormbreaker through a blast powered by all of the infinity stones and into Thanos' chest. That's some heavy damage.

At the same time, it's since been blocked by Gorr and by 2014 Thanos numerous times. In the same way that, despite Thor saying anyone less powerful than him wielding it would be driven mad in Infinity War, it's since been wielded by Captain America and Love. It's like it's been nerfed since its first appearance, or as if it was specifically designed as the Kryptonite to Thanos wielding the Infinity Stones, and therefore isn't as effective in other battles.

(Also "You should have went for the head" can be read as an indication that doing so would have killed Thanos)

It's also the case that a bullet to Captain America's head would kill him, but actually making that hit isn't quite so easy when he has the means to block it. Iron Man is incredibly quick and maneuverable, has potent energy blasts that could deflect it (the ones he used when Cull Obsidian first approached him in New York), and has shielding that kept him completely safe from a nasty and prolonged Power Stone blast.

Getting a physical hit in on Iron Man won't be easy for Thor, and that's the only way he's winning, as his lightning would only power him up. And, to reiterate, while he's trying, Iron Man will be fighting back, and Hulk and War Machine (and Cap and Spidey) will be doing other stuff to potentially distract him.

[Jcogginsa]

At the same time, it's since been blocked by Gorr and by 2014 Thanos numerous times. In the same way that, despite Thor saying anyone less powerful than him wielding it would be driven mad in Infinity War, it's since been wielded by Captain America and Love. It's like it's been nerfed since its first appearance, or as if it was specifically designed as the Kryptonite to Thanos wielding the Infinity Stones, and therefore isn't as effective in other battles.



It's also the case that a bullet to Captain America's head would kill him, but actually making that hit isn't quite so easy when he has the means to block it. Iron Man is incredibly quick and maneuverable, has potent energy blasts that could deflect it (the ones he used when Cull Obsidian first approached him in New York), and has shielding that kept him completely safe from a nasty and prolonged Power Stone blast.

Getting a physical hit in on Iron Man won't be easy for Thor, and that's the only way he's winning, as his lightning would only power him up. And, to reiterate, while he's trying, Iron Man will be fighting back, and Hulk and War Machine (and Cap and Spidey) will be doing other stuff to potentially distract him.

WRT the whole "Lightning powers up Tony" thing, the Powering up only happened because Thor's lightning basically hit Tony right in the arc reactor. It was fucking up the armor just fine otherwise.

00000

As an aside, Stormbreaker also has the ability to summon Bifrost, so he could potentially BFR people

[big_adventure]

The lightning thing seems to require a specific setup - hitting the arc reactor just so - or in Endgame when he used a very specific mode to take in lightning to amp his shot through a specifically designed port - and the lightning was absolutely shredding the armor around that in Avengers, plus it's also a massive no-limits fallacy to say that stopping pre-multiple-upgrade Thor's casual lightning in that first shot is the same thing as absorbing post-explicit-upgrade "the biggest lightning bolt in the history of lightning."

Tony is an excellent fighter with great reaction time. Thor is too, though, and I don't see that as an edge for Stark. What do you think happens when Stormbreaker hits Tony? Do think his armor can tank that? Thor can definitely tank some shots from Tony. Tony's all-out effort got him all of a single drop of blood from Thanos and then left him open to getting utterly destroyed. Thor's casual backhand stroke decapitated the guy. His throw flew through a combined attack from all six stones and implanted itself directly in Thanos' chest, nearly ending the threat on the spot - and would have had Thor aimed higher or slightly right.

Thor isn't going to just stand around and let Hulk hit him, so Hulk is as useful as an accordion for duck hunting and we've seen that post-upgrade Thor, without a weapon, and one-shot the guy. War Machine is so many tiers below Tony that him running interference doesn't really mean all that much.

[KJS]

The lightning thing seems to require a specific setup - hitting the arc reactor just so - or in Endgame when he used a very specific mode to take in lightning to amp his shot through a specifically designed port - and the lightning was absolutely shredding the armor around that in Avengers, plus it's also a massive no-limits fallacy to say that stopping pre-multiple-upgrade Thor's casual lightning in that first shot is the same thing as absorbing post-explicit-upgrade "the biggest lightning bolt in the history of lightning."

Tony is an excellent fighter with great reaction time. Thor is too, though, and I don't see that as an edge for Stark. What do you think happens when Stormbreaker hits Tony? Do think his armor can tank that? Thor can definitely tank some shots from Tony. Tony's all-out effort got him all of a single drop of blood from Thanos and then left him open to getting utterly destroyed. Thor's casual backhand stroke decapitated the guy. His throw flew through a combined attack from all six stones and implanted itself directly in Thanos' chest, nearly ending the threat on the spot - and would have had Thor aimed higher or slightly right.

Thor isn't going to just stand around and let Hulk hit him, so Hulk is as useful as an accordion for duck hunting and we've seen that post-upgrade Thor, without a weapon, and one-shot the guy. War Machine is so many tiers below Tony that him running interference doesn't really mean all that much.

I reiterate, Stormbreaker seems to have been designed specifically as the Kryptonite to an Infinity Stone-wielding Thanos. It hasn't been anywhere near as effective since the Thanos chest shot - not in Endgame, not in Love and Thunder.

I also reiterate decapitated Thanos was a badly injured, stoneless, retired Thanos who wasn't even trying to fight back (if we're using that Thanos as a benchmark, War Machine becomes massively relevant, as he easily restrained one of his arms). The Thanos Tony made bleed was a determined Thanos wielding four stones who, previously, Thor and Hulk collectively hadn't left a mark on when he only had one/two stones.

I'm also going to retroactively give Cap and Iron Spidey some credit. As pointed out already, the Mjolnir fight could become a battle between Thor and Cap for its possession. And Iron Spidey's hits did unbalance a four stone Thanos. If the Mjolnir fight hits the floor, Spidey may become slightly relevant and Cap could make it very difficult for Thor.

And, in the same way Thor isn't going to stand around and let Hulk hit him, Iron Man isn't going to just float around waiting for Stormbreaker. So the "when Stormbreaker hits him" is presumptive when he has a team attacking him.

So I'll say again, Thor beats Tony, but even just Tony doesn't make it easy. When it's Iron Man, Hulk, War Machine and two others, Iron Man's odds of landing a debilitating blow (bladed or Thanos-piercing, for example) are just as likely as Thor doing the same.

WRT the whole "Lightning powers up Tony" thing, the Powering up only happened because Thor's lightning basically hit Tony right in the arc reactor. It was fucking up the armor just fine otherwise.

Unfortunately, that's just not true. The armour had a crack in the chest from when Thor threw Mjolnir at it, but the lightning was largely being blocked by Tony's arm (no arc reactor there), which literally did no damage at all and still charged it.

As an aside, Stormbreaker also has the ability to summon Bifrost, so he could potentially BFR people

That is true.

[greatmetropolitan]

Give me a large, sharp axe and an injured guy who is letting me cut his head off and I'll probably be able to cut his head off. This wouldn't count as an impressive feat for me, because I have every advantage and the guy is letting it happen. The Thanos beheading scene is meaningless as a feat.

Stormbreaker going through a full power IG blast to hit Thanos is either because it's designed to be IG kryptonite or it's disregarded entirely as SMvsFL, because it hasn't done anything remotely that impressive in any of its other showings since, including extensive fight sequences with the same enemy.

Thor's lightning has hit Tony twice, powered him up both times. Tony managed to at least entertain a four stone Thanos, Hulk and Thor both lost with contemptuous ease to a no-stone Thanos, even given Thor's big Ragnarok power up.

Iron Spidey hits hard enough to at least make four stone Thanos recoil.

Cap contests Mjolnir and was shown to be able to hold Stormbreaker too.

Hulk may not be Thor class anymore but he'll buy a few seconds at *least*, which in conjunction with spidey webs and Cap could very well be all the Tony's blade weapon needs.

Thor isn't taking this unless he bifrosts them.

[Jcogginsa]

Unfortunately, that's just not true. The armour had a crack in the chest from when Thor threw Mjolnir at it, but the lightning was largely being blocked by Tony's arm (no arc reactor there), which literally did no damage at all and still charged it.

Nope. There's no clear shots of Tony's chest between him getting hit by Mjolnir and him getting hit by lightning. So it is impossible to say that the crack was caused by the physical hit.

What can be scene clear as day is that Tony's armor is riddled with glowing scars after the lightning blast. We can clearly see Tony get hit in the side of the head by the lightning , which is one of the places that there is a glowing scar. Tony waves his arm through the lightning blast after he is struck, but doesn't block it for any lengthy period of time. We even see a shot of the lightning below his arm, striking him in the chest.

Considering that the chest scar was glowing in the same manner as the head scar, which was 100 percent no ambiguity caused by the lightning, it seems pretty clear that the lightning was damaging the armor

[KJS]

Nope. There's no clear shots of Tony's chest between him getting hit by Mjolnir and him getting hit by lightning. So it is impossible to say that the crack was caused by the physical hit.

Apart from the fact that the chest damage literally shows up in the armour's visual damage display in Tony's mask after the hit, you mean?

What can be scene clear as day is that Tony's armor is riddled with glowing scars after the lightning blast. We can clearly see Tony get hit in the side of the head by the lightning , which is one of the places that there is a glowing scar. Tony waves his arm through the lightning blast after he is struck, but doesn't block it for any lengthy period of time. We even see a shot of the lightning below his arm, striking him in the chest.

Considering that the chest scar was glowing in the same manner as the head scar, which was 100 percent no ambiguity caused by the lightning, it seems pretty clear that the lightning was damaging the armor

"Riddled??" Apart from the chest, there are three little "hot" dots (one on the thigh, one on each shoulder) and a line of "hot" energy on his face, which is right down the join between the yellow retractable part of the mask and the red part (not a crack, an existing area where two parts of the mask join when it closes). That area of the face is later shown to be slightly blackened/charred (completely superficially) - and that might even be dirt or something. That's it. That's the extent of the "riddled" you speak of. Three tiny dots and a line down his face in a join of the armour that isn't as sealed as the rest.

More to the point, to further emphasise that fact, no damage shows up in Tony's mask after the lightning. Tony's suit has an explicit damage indicator - as I've just pointed out following the Mjolnir hit - and it shows absolutely nothing after the lightning. Nothing more needs to be said, really, because that absolutely categorically and explicitly proves my point (it is, however, further proven in the second-to-last paragraph below).

Furthermore, there is quite literally zero visible damage from the lightning after the "hot" areas cool off, other than that slightly blackened mark on the face. No cracks or dents whatsoever. Not a single one. Basically, it lit/heated the armour up in three *tiny* places, in addition to the crack in the chest and the part on the face where we earlier saw the mask close after Tony speaks, and that was the end of it.

The only other time the armour is remotely compromised is when they get into a physical tussle and Thor squeezes the arms. At that point, it crumples a little. Again, this shows up in the mask display as damage, proving that damage ALWAYS shows up when it occurs. Again, it didn't show any damage during or after the lightning. Absolute undeniable fact.

Also, saying he doesn't block it with his arms for any lengthy period of time is outright false. Going by number of frames, his arms take the blast for more time than any other part of his armour. Count it.

[StupidMoniker]

The only other time the armour is remotely compromised is when they get into a physical tussle and Thor squeezes the arms. At that point, it crumples a little. Again, this shows up in the mask display as damage, proving that damage ALWAYS shows up when it occurs. Again, it didn't show any damage during or after the lightning. Absolute undeniable fact.

He also dents the helmet with a headbutt.
Iron Man Headbutt Dent.jpg

[Jcogginsa]

Apart from the fact that the chest damage literally shows up in the armour's visual damage display in Tony's mask after the hit, you mean?

I'm gonna need a screenshot of that because the video I have to too low quality make make out a crack in the image the helmet brings up. All I can make out is a damage indicator, and "The armor was damaged" is not the same as "The hammer caused a massive scar on the schest "

"Riddled??" Apart from the chest, there are three little "hot" dots (one on the thigh, one on each shoulder) and a line of "hot" energy on his face, which is right down the join between the yellow retractable part of the mask and the red part (not a crack, an existing area where two parts of the mask join when it closes). That area of the face is later shown to be slightly blackened/charred (completely superficially) - and that might even be dirt or something. That's it. That's the extent of the "riddled" you speak of. Three tiny dots and a line down his face in a join of the armour that isn't as sealed as the rest.

The head scar isn't going down the side of the helmet, it's going through his ete

More to the point, to further emphasise that fact, no damage shows up in Tony's mask after the lightning. Tony's suit has an explicit damage indicator - as I've just pointed out following the Mjolnir hit - and it shows absolutely nothing after the lightning. Nothing more needs to be said, really, because that absolutely categorically and explicitly proves my point (it is, however, further proven in the second-to-last paragraph below).

The lightning causes the display to flicker, and it doesn't become stable until after the lightning super charges him. The damage could have popped up afterward, while we're not seeing that viewpoint.

Furthermore, there is quite literally zero visible damage from the lightning after the "hot" areas cool off, other than that slightly blackened mark on the face. No cracks or dents whatsoever. Not a single one. Basically, it lit/heated the armour up in three *tiny* places, in addition to the crack in the chest and the part on the face where we earlier saw the mask close after Tony speaks, and that was the end of it.

Yeah, guess what, there's also zero visible damage from the hammer strike. Even if you look at Tony's chest during the second that it's on iluminated by the lightning, there's no scar there.

And there is never a crack there at any point. Even after the lighning is done, in the moments where the wound is still glowing, it doesn't look anything like a crack, It doesn't look like any kind of wound that would be caused by getting hit with the flat end of a hammer. At all.

We can see when Tony gets hit by Mjolnir that he was hit directly on the Arc reactor, Mjolnir is completely obscuring the light of the arc reactor. If the hammer hit had caused that damage, why is the damage to the side of the area he was hit, instead of emanating out from where he was hit? And how did getting his by the flat, rectangular end of a hammer create several small circles down the line of the strike.

The only other time the armour is remotely compromised is when they get into a physical tussle and Thor squeezes the arms. At that point, it crumples a little. Again, this shows up in the mask display as damage, proving that damage ALWAYS shows up when it occurs. Again, it didn't show any damage during or after the lightning. Absolute undeniable fact.

No, it's pretty easy to deny that a wound which
1. Is not visible after the hammer strike
2. Is not in the place where he was hit by the hammer
3. Does not look anything like a crack caused by getting hit with a hammer

Was not caused by getting hit by a hammer.

What we see is "Tony gets struck by lighning and then has glowing wounds on the areas where the lightning made contact". Occam's razor indicates that the damage was caused by lightning

Also, saying he doesn't block it with his arms for any lengthy period of time is outright false. Going by number of frames, his arms take the blast for more time than any other part of his armour. Count it.

All I have is a youtube video and a pause button. I can't count frames. All I can count is seconds

In mbest attempt to count the seconds, The lightning first makes contact with Tony on second 1:47. For a split moment you can see him being hit by two bolts, one at head height, and the other lower. His arms are noticeably at his sides.

at 1:48 he's stumbling back, the lightning is centered more on his chest, and he's raised one of his arms near his head. The flash of the lightning makes it impossible to tell if the arm is in the stream or behind it

At 1: 49 the shot cuts to a different angle. Tony is being hit at chest height, and when the glare dies down we can see his arm above the lightning stream, but being grazed by it.

At 1:50, the arm is even higher above the lighting stream. The shot changes again and the arm is still distinctly above the stream

At 1:51 the Lightning has jumped upward as is not directly hitting the arm. The arm does not appear to have significantly moved from it's positon. The scar on the chest is already present.

By 1:52 the lightning is gone.