Hulk vs. Thing

[Ptrvc]

You would think that with Ben being on Marvel's 'flagship' team, he'd be bringing the smoke with the universe's most powerful. At least in a fistfight.

The thing is Ben isn't the one who gets the big power increases on the team. Sue, Johnny and Reed have all seen wild increases in power over the years (Reed through intelligence and inventions) and they have an on and off blatant plot device in Franklin. Ben on the other hand has been mostly set in power since the end of the silver age.

Also I think the Thing and Hulk fights not being as much of thing are about character as opposed to simply about power. Ben and the classic Savage Hulk of the silver and bronze age had the right similarities and distinctions to really bounce off each other well, but the Hulk's mostly moved beyond that.

Think about the set up for the Thing vs Devil Hulk fight, you basically had to have Puppet Master hijack Hulk's body to set it up because character wise Devil never had a reason to go after Ben and vise versa. You don't have the misunderstandings and emotional outbursts that used to drive Hulk vs Thing or Namor etc back in the day. Same with Green Scar and other more rational modern incarnations of the Hulk.

I think that's part of the reason Hulk vs Wolverine is still as much of a thing as ever despite the power disparity. Partly it's Logan's popularity and the fact he debut fighting Hulk but largely I think it's due to the characters personalities clashing well together.

Thing about the last three or four Thing vs Hulk fights how many of them broke out because the characters ran across each other and there personalities naturally led to conflict and how many had to be engineered by outside forces and wacky comic circumstances in order to have the "classic" fight?

[Micabe]

Benjamin Grimm should have never been nerfed after his strength evolved to class 100... The rivalry between Bruce Banner and Ben was and still should be one of Earth's most prominent grudge matches ever. Granted Hulk's strength can and should eventually increase to be greater than Thing's but, it should never be a case where Hulk simply gets mad and mops the floor with Thing simply because of that. Grim should always, at least for several rounds hold his own against Banner, at least until he eventually gets tired and is defeated from sheer exhaustion.

I'm just saying

[Cap808]

Benjamin Grimm should have never been nerfed after his strength evolved to class 100... The rivalry between Bruce Banner and Ben was and still should be one of Earth's most prominent grudge matches ever. Granted Hulk's strength can and should eventually increase to be greater than Thing's but, it should never be a case where Hulk simply gets mad and mops the floor with Thing simply because of that. Grim should always, at least for several rounds hold his own against Banner, at least until he eventually gets tired and is defeated from sheer exhaustion.

I'm just saying

Exactly! When these two fight, it should make all the other heroes nervous, but also unable to turn their eyes away from the sheer ginormity of the event!

[JudicatorPrime]

Exactly! When these two fight, it should make all the other heroes nervous....

Seeing the original Hulk anywhere would do that, because everyone had the perception that he was out of control pure rage. But they've broken Hulk at this point. I don't know anyone who gets mad as hell, but is still coherent and in control when they are. Hulk should be that way -- over the edge and then some -- but no, now he can get as mad as he wants without loss of control or rationality.

The problem with Ben vs. Hulk these days is that while Ben is still Ben, the Hulk is no longer the Hulk. We'd have to roll back Hulk, or improve Ben -- or both -- in order for it to be interesting. And with so many uber-powerful characters running around NYC these days, it's very likely that a fight between the two gets easily stopped by calmer heads. Sue alone could stop these two from going at it, if written to her true power levels.

[Cap808]

Seeing the original Hulk anywhere would do that, because everyone had the perception that he was out of control pure rage. But they've broken Hulk at this point. I don't know anyone who gets mad as hell, but is still coherent and in control when they are. Hulk should be that way -- over the edge and then some -- but no, now he can get as mad as he wants without loss of control or rationality.

The problem with Ben vs. Hulk these days is that while Ben is still Ben, the Hulk is no longer the Hulk. We'd have to roll back Hulk, or improve Ben -- or both -- in order for it to be interesting. And with so many uber-powerful characters running around NYC these days, it's very likely that a fight between the two gets easily stopped by calmer heads. Sue alone could stop these two from going at it, if written to her true power levels.

Great points. It's deflating to know that these two would no longer be considered a 'main event'. Someone has to step in and power up Ben.