Titans by Tom Taylor and Nicola Scott

[jmc247]

I remember that in NTT Trigon is less of a demon because of his appearance described as demonic. It could work as a Galactus type of thing that anyone who looks at Trigon visually sees him as a satanic being and his true form could be unknown to everyone including Raven. The NTT version of Raven seems less of a Cambion and more of a demi-goddess of eldritch origins.

There are a ton of generic one note hell based demons in American fiction. Heck DC did Sabbac in the Black Adam film. Audiences yawned. If the movies do Trigon and follow that model they will end up in the same boat. NTT Trigon was something very different I agree.

Combining magic, technology, some religious themes, and a scifi other worldly elements, and down to Earth metaphors was what made the NTT stuff work.

The problem Marv had was he kept Trigon dead and didn’t update the metaphors for an emancipation story into something new so when Trigon did return it was just more generic and less interesting versions of the exact same story.

[Incognito]

[deleted post]

[Incognito]

There are a ton of generic one note hell based demons in American fiction. Heck DC did Sabbac in the Black Adam film. Audiences yawned. If the movies do Trigon and follow that model they will end up in the same boat. NTT Trigon was something very different I agree.

Attachment 137822

I always imagine Trigon live live-action design looked like this. A mixed look of being both cosmic and demonic. I would not mind if he looked like his original or later comic book iteration but they need to tone down the CGI like they have with Sabbac in Black Adam.

The problem Marv had was he kept Trigon dead and didn’t update the metaphors for an emancipation story into something new so when Trigon did return it was just more generic and less interesting versions of the exact same story.

IIRC I think Marv wanted Raven (and Trigon) to stay dead permanently because her role was to create a new iteration of Titans to fight her father. The higher-ups wanted Marv to bring Raven back. I think Marv said that Nightwing, Starfire, Donna Troy, Cyborg, and Changelling were going to be the sole titans after The Terror of Trigon arc because he was not fond of speedsters and Raven always had a role the same as Terra and her story has finished.

[jmc247]

IIRC I think Marv wanted Raven (and Trigon) to stay dead permanently because her role was to create a new iteration of Titans to fight her father. The higher-ups wanted Marv to bring Raven back. I think Marv said that Nightwing, Starfire, Donna Troy, Cyborg, and Changelling were going to be the sole titans after The Terror of Trigon arc because he was not fond of speedsters and Raven always had a role the same as Terra and her story has finished.

That is probably true. After he started using her as a plot device to move along his story. Most obviously when breaking up Kory and Dick, but not just then.

The best thing that could have happened was her and Trigon be given to another book or part of the DC franchise. Characters that are hits can’t be killed off for good when talking about comic franchises even when it’s the will of the creator of the character to do so.

In terms of Trigon part cosmic and part demon works, but he has to be human enough for readers to latch on otherwise you run into the Ultimate Galactus problem.

[Incognito]

That is probably true. After he started using her as a plot device to move along his story. Most obviously when breaking up Kory and Dick, but not just then.

I got the feeling that Marv does not know what to do with Raven and at that time wanted her to stay fully dead, also he wanted Kory and Dick to get married but the Batman editors declined him so he probably turned Raven's evil and ruined her wedding.

The best thing that could have happened was her and Trigon be given to another book or part of the DC franchise. Characters that are hits can’t be killed off for good when talking about comic franchises even when it’s the will of the creator of the character to do so.

I always thought that she (Trigon, Sons of Trigon, and the Church of Blood) would be a great acquisition,for Justice League Dark. It would benefit her to be more involved in the mystical side of the universe by meeting characters such as Constantine, Zatanna, Etrigan, etc. Another character that worked was Wonder Woman, who has joined JLD in recent years and it did well for her I liked that she felt out of place with them because she is not used to the dark and horror side of the magic and she has always been in her corner by fighting Gods and has to rely on power, martial skill and divine weapons but when she was in a team with someone like Zatanna she needs more than that and she does not know what she is doing because her world is different from them and it requires cost and sacrifices. Unlike WW, I don't think Raven will feel out of place she would feel quite at home with all the dark and horror elements of magic.

I would like to see Raven interact with Constantinee due to his history with her father, Etrigan due to their blood connection, Dr. Fate due to her being the dark counterpart by wearing the helm of hate, and Zatanna because she was the one who denied her request because she senses evil in her.

[Agent Z]

The NTT version of Raven seems less of a Cambion and more of a demi-goddess of eldritch origins.

What's the difference?

[Incognito]

What's the difference?

Cambions and Eldritch demigods are half-mortals with abilities originating from their heritage but one is demonic (Cambions) and the other is Eldritch that is rooted in the dark side of the cosmos (Cthulhu, Yog-Soggoth, etc.)

Demons are infernal beings that originated in Hell or Heaven before they were demoted as they were once angels and part of Humanity and Human's beliefs. Eldritch beings exist outside human comprehension or they appear otherworldy in an alien sense are not part of any of Earth's mythology and originated in other dimensions.

[jmc247]

Cambions and Eldritch demigods are half-mortals with abilities originating from their heritage but one is demonic (Cambions) and the other is Eldritch that is rooted in the dark side of the cosmos (Cthulhu, Yog-Soggoth, etc.)

Demons are infernal beings that originated in Hell or Heaven before they were demoted as they were once angels and part of Humanity and Human's beliefs. Eldritch beings exist outside human comprehension or they appear otherworldy in an alien sense are not part of any of Earth's mythology and originated in other dimensions.

Trigon was in the NTT era birthed from the dark emotions of a civilization and he was often formless which implied his massive red form might not even be his true form.

I always thought that she (Trigon, Sons of Trigon, and the Church of Blood) would be a great acquisition,for Justice League Dark. It would benefit her to be more involved in the mystical side of the universe by meeting characters such as Constantine, Zatanna, Etrigan, etc. Another character that worked was Wonder Woman, who has joined JLD in recent years and it did well for her I liked that she felt out of place with them because she is not used to the dark and horror side of the magic and she has always been in her corner by fighting Gods and has to rely on power, martial skill and divine weapons but when she was in a team with someone like Zatanna she needs more than that and she does not know what she is doing because her world is different from them and it requires cost and sacrifices. Unlike WW, I don't think Raven will feel out of place she would feel quite at home with all the dark and horror elements of magic.

It benefits Trigon to be written outside the Titans at times as shown in the animated movies where he could be more than an irritation to his daughters' story. In terms of Raven and JLD there was a one shot that was like that a few years back. While she didn't interact with Constantine much there was a great deal of philosophy attached to the story as well as bringing up the concept of what she really is devoid of her humanity.



In the current Titans story Raven is split. I think we are supposed to read it as Raven is her pure form demon and Rachel is her pure human form. The actual depiction is more Rachel is closer to her typical depiction with her humanity in the driver's seat and Raven is her typical depiction with her demon in the driver's seat. Neither as yet feels like pure versions of themselves to the extent that Rachel still has access to her Trigon descended powers.

[Hypo]

Titans #8 Preview
Writer: Tom Taylor
Artist: Stephen Segovia

[Primal Slayer]

I'm beyond ready for a Donna heavy lead arc. That isn't about finding who she is. Trigon is literally every 3 years. If That.

[Drako]

The last Trigon storyline happened in the Scott Lobdell Teen Titans.

[Primal Slayer]

The last Trigon storyline happened in the Scott Lobdell Teen Titans.

It feels like yesterday

[king81992]

It feels like yesterday

Because that's the only plot line they do with Raven.

[jmc247]

The Daughters of Darkness in ‘18 maxi was half Terror of Trigon rehash.



The real question with Trigon storytelling is how much they can avoid rehashing the Terror of Trigon. I thought the animated movie stuff did a good job there or moving behind it after they rehashed it in Justice League v Teen Titans.

[Hypo]

TITANS #11
Written by TOM TAYLOR
Art by LUCAS MEYER
Cover by CHRIS SAMNEE
Variant cover by CARLO PAGULAYAN
Design variant by LUCAS MEYER
$3.99 US | 32 pages | Variant $4.99 US (card stock)
ON SALE 5/21/24

After a literal deal with the devil, Waller turns things up a notch! With the help of the twisted Doctor Morrow, she has now created an ultimate weapon capable of taking down all the Titans. Can the team survive themselves?