Wrestling WWE

[BigLbo]

I think anyone old enough to have watched the attitude era understand it was what it was... just an attempt at creating a nWo vs DX mark out moment. They threw it out there for fun. And while some justifiably argued it didn't make sense, I think the overall response for it was pretty good.

I was at Wrestlemania and really I think the buzz over that lingered through the next few matches on the card.

apparently not, it certainly was what it was but people old enough to have been watching in the attitude eras understanding of what it actually was seems to vary. it was sting's 1st match in the WWE and at mania no less, that's what it should've been about, nothing more. NWO vs DX has really nothing to do with sting. you say it was a mark out moment for the fans but people who've been watching for over 20years can see it was just the klique doing what they do. i mean do you look back at hogan jumping in the ring whenever macho man won the title as a mark out moment for fans or hogan getting his **** in??

i'm not even a fan of sting but that match should've been about him not the NWO & DX. my brother's a casual fan but was really into it during the monday night wars and his favorite wrestlers are those guys, hall, nash(or razor and diesel as he still calls them) HBK, HHH even xpac and he was like WTF when the NWO was on stings side because 1)sting's entire purpose was to destroy the NWO and 2)those were HHH's buddies.

I don't know if he would be retired if he wasn't married to Vince's daughter. He still looks good, and seems to be in very good shape. At least cosmedically he'd aged pretty well (only DX guy left that doesn't need rogaine)... though obviously you never know. Perhaps he wouldn't be in as good shape if he had a full road schedule. Still, I can see him having a long career like Flair. And I think he was a top heel even before he married Steph (though it's certainly possible his push wouldn't have been as hard or as sustained). He was already a world champion before that.

But in the least marrying the boss' daughter does HELP as far as career longevity goes. Can't deny that.

they were already dating though.

but it was his to get put together and grow, as I understand it

he went down to FCW, retooled the whole thing, helped put together the deal with Full Sail, etc

it seems like when something does well its anything but HHH, but when it shits the bed, its all his fault

not around here.

[TheInvisibleMan]

It's karma for his push in the 2000s.

so that gets held against him for how long now?

And I give the performance center all the cred it deserves... but Triple H created and manages the thing so he gets a good deal of credit for that.

I agree here

[BigLbo]

so that gets held against him for how long now?



I agree here

until it stops??

[Siddon]

HHH is one of the most grossly overrated and overpushed performers of all time. If he hadn't married Vince's daughter he'd be retired and working as a backstage agent at best by now. At best he's a better-connected Jeff Jarrett.

Meltzer was right, he's a solid B+ player.

The issue I have with HHH isn't that he's a B+ player it's that the HHH era pushes guys like HHH (Cena, Sheamus, Reigns and Orton) over the guys that actually get over (Ryder, Ambrose, Punk, Bryan)

[HUTHAIFA]

Meltzer was right, he's a solid B+ player.

The issue I have with HHH isn't that he's a B+ player it's that the HHH era pushes guys like HHH (Cena, Sheamus, Reigns and Orton) over the guys that actually get over (Ryder, Ambrose, Punk, Bryan)

Everyone you listed has been pushed(maybe not Ryder, but that really wasnt a loss). Just being on tv week to week is a push. 99% of all WWE performers have not gotten the push that Punk had gotten. Ambrose right now, probably has more shirts out there than anybody but Cena.Bryan came off of one of the greatest Mania wins ever. Bryan is hurt. Are they conflicted with him. Is he plan B when he should be Plan A, yeah of course, but in reality Cena is their Hogan, and he is always going to be their main focus. Unlike Hogan though, other guys get to actually share a bit of the spotlight.

[DebkoX]

HHH is grossly entertaining though.

[TheInvisibleMan]

HHH is grossly entertaining though.

I love his whole "Im doing this for YOU" bit, that seems to be when he is at his villainous best

[TheInvisibleMan]

Meltzer was right, he's a solid B+ player.

The issue I have with HHH isn't that he's a B+ player it's that the HHH era pushes guys like HHH (Cena, Sheamus, Reigns and Orton) over the guys that actually get over (Ryder, Ambrose, Punk, Bryan)

CM Punk - took off because things weren't how he liked them

Bryan - injury prone the past 2 years

granted I like both men immensely but investing in them long term didn't work out

[alex]

Meltzer was right, he's a solid B+ player.

The issue I have with HHH isn't that he's a B+ player it's that the HHH era pushes guys like HHH (Cena, Sheamus, Reigns and Orton) over the guys that actually get over (Ryder, Ambrose, Punk, Bryan)

Um...Cena and Orton are very over.
Cena is the most over guy in the company by leaps and bounds, just because people boo him it doesn't negative that he sells more tickets and merch than everyone else, and gets a bigger crowd reaction.
Bryan main evented mania, punk held the belt for 400 some days, i still have yet to see where Ambrose is super over but people keep saying it so i guess i'm wrong on that one but he's young so jury is still out. And ryder should have been pushed more, but never above the mid card.

[Siddon]

Everyone you listed has been pushed(maybe not Ryder, but that really wasnt a loss). Just being on tv week to week is a push. 99% of all WWE performers have not gotten the push that Punk had gotten. Ambrose right now, probably has more shirts out there than anybody but Cena.Bryan came off of one of the greatest Mania wins ever. Bryan is hurt. Are they conflicted with him. Is he plan B when he should be Plan A, yeah of course, but in reality Cena is their Hogan, and he is always going to be their main focus. Unlike Hogan though, other guys get to actually share a bit of the spotlight.

If the standard of a push is getting on TV, then yes they were "pushed". But a real push is a multi-year moving a character forward plan that sets them up to carry the torch.

Ultimate Warrior
Yokozuna
Lex Luger
HHH
Angle
Lesnar
Orton
Sheamus

Daniel Bryan had his prime wasted away for two years before being buried for 6 months only to win at Wrestlemania...and face Kane.

CM Punk toiled away in the upper mid card for years, bouncing between heel and face, getting over in any way possible and then he get's his title run...and he doesn't even Main Event Wrestlemania

Zach Ryder got over and was pulled off TV multiple times over his run.

And Dean Ambrose is right now giving Roman Reigns a rub in popularity and being worn down in this Wyatt family drama.

Um...Cena and Orton are very over.
Cena is the most over guy in the company by leaps and bounds, just because people boo him it doesn't negative that he sells more tickets and merch than everyone else, and gets a bigger crowd reaction.
Bryan main evented mania, punk held the belt for 400 some days, i still have yet to see where Ambrose is super over but people keep saying it so i guess i'm wrong on that one but he's young so jury is still out. And ryder should have been pushed more, but never above the mid card.

They didn't get themselves over they were pushed. Orton was pushed and continues to be pushed. People also don't have a choice with Cena but he is over. But I'll say this ever notice that every person that has challenged Cena's popularity has disappeared.

[alex]

And Dean Ambrose is right now giving Roman Reigns a rub in popularity and being worn down in this Wyatt family drama.

Reigns is in the exact same position as ambrose, he's not doing better against anyone in the wyatts.
When they had a match at the ppv he slept through it. When they introduced the big guy, reigns offense was no sold just as deans, and he was layed out just like dean.
Now, when Dean turns on him (or he turns on dean, i hope) THEN they will be using dean to get him over.

[HUTHAIFA]

If the standard of a push is getting on TV, then yes they were "pushed". But a real push is a multi-year moving a character forward plan that sets them up to carry the torch.

Ultimate Warrior
Yokozuna
Lex Luger
HHH
Angle
Lesnar
Orton
Sheamus

Daniel Bryan had his prime wasted away for two years before being buried for 6 months only to win at Wrestlemania...and face Kane.

CM Punk toiled away in the upper mid card for years, bouncing between heel and face, getting over in any way possible and then he get's his title run...and he doesn't even Main Event Wrestlemania

Zach Ryder got over and was pulled off TV multiple times over his run.

And Dean Ambrose is right now giving Roman Reigns a rub in popularity and being worn down in this Wyatt family drama.



They didn't get themselves over they were pushed. Orton was pushed and continues to be pushed. People also don't have a choice with Cena but he is over. But I'll say this ever notice that every person that has challenged Cena's popularity has disappeared.

Its the other way around. There is nowhere to go after Cena. Cena is the main event. When you fued with John Cena, you are in the main event. Smarks root for you like crazy, and the casual fan really notice you. After that fued is done, Cena is still the main event, and you are bit more popular fighting guys who cant push you to the next level.

You dont toil away in the upper midcard. Most guys dont make the upper midcard. Most guys wish they were in the upper midcard.

[XPac]

CM Punk - took off because things weren't how he liked them

Bryan - injury prone the past 2 years

granted I like both men immensely but investing in them long term didn't work out

Yeah, I think the only real complaint guys like Punk and Bryan had in regards to their pushes was that they weren't Cena level. And when it came right down to it, they just weren't John Cena.

Cena is a freaking machine. He works 24/7, almost never gets hurt, and magically returns in half the time one would expect he would. I'm half convinced Vince had Cena created in some labratory in the basement level of Titans Towers.

Punk was as close to being Cena level as anyone in the post attitude era... but he left. You can say the reasons he left were more than justifiably and even the WWE's fault to some degree... but the point being he wasn't the guy to take Cena's spot. Even if Punk hadn't left it's debatable he would have had a longer career than Cena. The guy was beat down hard living in Cena's shoes for that last title run.

The other guy that came as close to being Cena level as anyone was Bryan... but 2 Wrestlemania's straight he's been injured and put out for half the year. As good and as over as Bryan is, he's simply not a good investment in the future.

Cena is still here, he's still the man with or without the world title, and Cena is STILL in his prime. In hindsight at least it made all the sense in the world that Cena wouldn't lose his top spot to Bryan or Punk... Cena is still whats best for business at least as of now.

Maybe an Ambrose or a Reigns or an Owens can change all of that... and I do think the WWE is doing a pretty good job turning them into stars.

[XPac]

Its the other way around. There is nowhere to go after Cena. Cena is the main event. When you fued with John Cena, you are in the main event. Smarks root for you like crazy, and the casual fan really notice you. After that fued is done, Cena is still the main event, and you are bit more popular fighting guys who cant push you to the next level.

You dont toil away in the upper midcard. Most guys dont make the upper midcard. Most guys wish they were in the upper midcard.

That's part of the problem with Owens. He essentially started off in a feud with John Cena. There's almost nowhere to go but down from there. I think Owens is talented and entertaining enough so that it won't matter... he'll made any feud fun. But anything he does for a long time will be perceived as a step down for him. I think for a lesser wrestler that might be somewhat of a booking problem... though Owens wouldn't have been put in that situation if he was a lesser wrestler so it should work out okay for him.

[alex]

That's part of the problem with Owens. He essentially started off in a feud with John Cena. There's almost nowhere to go but down from there. I think Owens is talented and entertaining enough so that it won't matter... he'll made any feud fun. But anything he does for a long time will be perceived as a step down for him. I think for a lesser wrestler that might be somewhat of a booking problem... though Owens wouldn't have been put in that situation if he was a lesser wrestler so it should work out okay for him.

The problem was less he had nowhere to go but down, and more in the fact that he beat cena, then lost to him twice, then lost to finn balor twice. Him beating Cena was kind of a big deal, they did nothing with it.