Wrestling WWE

[BigLbo]

check out international wrestling thread.

[steve2275]

check out international wrestling thread.

id rather not be spoiled LOL

[master of read]

jericho and kenny are beating the shit out of each other.

[BigLbo]

id rather not be spoiled LOL

i meant dragonkent. gryphon bumped the international thread for WK 12 discussion, it's been just me all night though.

[XPac]

wtf are you talking about?? he was on TV all year(even pinned AJ on smackdown) and on most B-show ppv's. he was even in 1 main event of a PPV. i know that pales in comparison to AJ's 3 main events but still.



possibly, but not a big difference between a main eventer and somebody who has also been a main eventer which is what we're looking at here. 2 months ago AJ was in the midcard just like dolph wrestling for the same title dolph just won, in 2more months he could be back, it's up to the company and what they want to do. i think this level that AJ is on xists only in your imagination.



should has nothing to do with it, just how shit is. some people won't pay to see guys they've never heard of no matter how good those guys might be. to be honest i'm like that. i'd pay money to see Mr Backlund even his match is just a couple of punches, kicks and the crossface chickenwing, but if i see some guys on the same card that are good i'll keep an eye for them in the future.

i went to the PWG debut show just to see, super dragon, AJ, joe and frankie kazarian and saw sara del ray, chris bosh, excalibur, joey ryan, scott lost, scorpio sky & quicksilver, matt cross(m-dogg/son of havoc) all of whom i became a fan of. sometimes you just got to get people in the door.



i'll be up anyways at work, should be really slow night so hopefully i can see most of the good stuff.

should we do a separate thread, maybe just start a NJPW or bump the international wrestling thread??

There's a big difference between being a main eventer and being a main eventer 4-5 years ago. AJ is a main eventer, while Dolph is not and hasn't been for a very very long time. Could he be again? Possibly... and when that happens THEN you can at least begin to make the argument that they're on the same level. Right now they're not. Right now AJ is world champion. Right now AJ has 5 times the merchanize Ziggler has on shop zone. Right now AJ has performed in every single PPV he's eligible to perform in while Ziggler has shown up in maybe half. Simply put they are not the same. Of that 93% of the lockeroom guys who want to swap places with AJ, I'm pretty darn confident AJ is on that list. I don't think it's just my imagination... I don't think Dolph would even agree with you that he and AJ are on the same level.

[BigLbo]

dolph's last main event was 6months ago.

AJ lost clean to baron corbin for the US title in october, ziggler beat corbin for the US title in december. they're on the same level, AJ getting a title because the jinger xperiment failed doesn't mean that much in the big picture. if they were on different levels you'd say NO WAY could dolph take the title from AJ in the next couple of months, but because they're in that same tier the idea of it isn't shocking at all.

please stop using numbers, you either just throw them out w/o checking or are very bad at math. of the 10 ppv ziggler was eligible for he was on 6, that's 60% which is 10% more than half.

[XPac]

dolph's last main event was 6months ago.

AJ lost clean to baron corbin for the US title in october, ziggler beat corbin for the US title in december. they're on the same level, AJ getting a title because the jinger xperiment failed doesn't mean that much in the big picture. if they were on different levels you'd say NO WAY could dolph take the title from AJ in the next couple of months, but because they're in that same tier the idea of it isn't shocking at all.

please stop using numbers, you either just throw them out w/o checking or are very bad at math. of the 10 ppv ziggler was eligible for he was on 6, that's 60% which is 10% more than half.

Doph was in a main event... but that doesn't necessarily make him a main eventer. Things like Elimination Chamber, Money in the Bank, Survivor Series, and of course the Rumble often incorporate mid-carders into the main event due to the sheer number of bodies needed in the match.

And I wouldn't say NO WAY to Dolph beatng AJ anymore than I said NO WAY to Jinder winning the world title. Sometimes WWE will throw stuff on the wall to see if it sticks. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It COULD work with Ziggler... and if it does and not only wins the title but stays a main eventer then yeah, I'll concede he's on that main eventer level same as AJ. But that hasn't happened yet. And conversely if he fails to win the title (assuming he even gets the shot) or if his title reign ends up a failed experiment like Jinder, then AJ will probably win it back because he's a person they can actually depend on to carry the title. And that's the difference between the two. Guys like Jinder and Dolph are experiemnts, while guys like AJ are guys who take the titles off the experiments when they don't work.

And as far as Ziggler being in 5 or 6 of the PPV's... I wasn't counting the WrestleMania pre-show where he competed in the Andre the Giant Battle Royal along with every other mid-card or curtain jerker in the lockeroom. But if that counts then I'll go with 60%. It still does a good job illustrating the point of where AJ and Ziggler are in relation to each other.

[BigLbo]

Doph was in a main event... but that doesn't necessarily make him a main eventer. Things like Elimination Chamber, Money in the Bank, Survivor Series, and of course the Rumble often incorporate mid-carders into the main event due to the sheer number of bodies needed in the match.

could say the same thing about AJ, because 2 of his 3 main events things like that.

And I wouldn't say NO WAY to Dolph beatng AJ anymore than I said NO WAY to Jinder winning the world title. Sometimes WWE will throw stuff on the wall to see if it sticks. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

you should've unless you're reading the DERT SHEETZ about an upcoming tour of india and what not. jinger's title win was a big WTF because he was very out of place as a champion, where as dolph wouldn't be very surprising at all, he's been there before.

It COULD work with Ziggler... and if it does and not only wins the title but stays a main eventer then yeah, I'll concede he's on that main eventer level same as AJ. But that hasn't happened yet. And conversely if he fails to win the title (assuming he even gets the shot) or if his title reign ends up a failed experiment like Jinder, then AJ will probably win it back because he's a person they can actually depend on to carry the title. And that's the difference between the two. Guys like Jinder and Dolph are experiemnts, while guys like AJ are guys who take the titles off the experiments when they don't work.

do you even realize you just put them all in the same group yourself right there?? also this scenario doesn't do AJ any favors. you realize they try xperiments because they want them to work right?? so you're pretty much saying AJ is 2nd choice. like dolph and jinger are the chicks you work up courage to ask out on a date, AJ is the chick you call if they say no.

you're still putting too much stock in that belt, again AJ main evented 3 PPV last year and one was clearly a mistake.

And as far as Ziggler being in 5 or 6 of the PPV's... I wasn't counting the WrestleMania pre-show. But if that counts then I'll go with 60%. It still does a good job illustrating the point of where AJ and Ziggler are in relation to each other.

i didn't count mania(AJ curtain jerked btw)

PPV's dolph was eligible for in 2017 x=he was on it, o=not on it
rumble x
chamber x
mania o
backlash x
MitB x
battleground o
summerslam o
hell in the cell x
survivor o
clash x

anyways they're on the same level because 2 months ago they were literally competing for the same title, they're both very talented but neither has ever been the man on the main show, both have been the champ on the B-show

but most of all because they could easily switch positions and nobody would bat an eye, do you disagree with this point??

also, just to clarify you believe dolph has never had a lengthy run with the B-show title because he's not as good as AJ??

[XPac]

could say the same thing about AJ, because 2 of his 3 main events things like that.



you should've unless you're reading the DERT SHEETZ about an upcoming tour of india and what not. jinger's title win was a big WTF because he was very out of place as a champion, where as dolph wouldn't be very surprising at all, he's been there before.



do you even realize you just put them all in the same group yourself right there?? also this scenario doesn't do AJ any favors. you realize they try xperiments because they want them to work right?? so you're pretty much saying AJ is 2nd choice. like dolph and jinger are the chicks you work up courage to ask out on a date, AJ is the chick you call if they say no.

you're still putting too much stock in that belt, again AJ main evented 3 PPV last year and one was clearly a mistake.



i didn't count mania(AJ curtain jerked btw)

PPV's dolph was eligible for in 2017 x=he was on it, o=not on it
rumble x
chamber x
mania o
backlash x
MitB x
battleground o
summerslam o
hell in the cell x
survivor o
clash x

anyways they're on the same level because 2 months ago they were literally competing for the same title, they're both very talented but neither has ever been the man on the main show, both have been the champ on the B-show

but most of all because they could easily switch positions and nobody would bat an eye, do you disagree with this point??

also, just to clarify you believe dolph has never had a lengthy run with the B-show title because he's not as good as AJ??

AJ did compete in main events with multiple people... the difference being in AJ's case that's not the ONLY main events he ever appears in. Because again, AJ is a main eventer and Dolph is not.

And no, I didn't put Dolph and AJ in the same group. Dolph and Jinger are experiments to see if guys can be main eventers, while legit main eventers like AJ end the experiments when they don't work out.

Could AJ and Dolph switch positions? Yes. Could they easily switch positions? IMO no. AJ is in the position he is in because of how over he is and how much money he can generate (which presumably is pretty descent considering how large his page on WWE shopzone is). Is it possible for Dolph to get as over as AJ and have that many kids in the stands wear Dolph t shirts and hats and whatever? Maybe, but it's not easy to get to that level. If it were anyone could, or at least more people could.

ANd that fact that we're even discussing them switching places tells us that they are indeed in different places. Which is my point. They wouldn't need to switch places if they were in the same group. That would be redundant.

And there are a lot of reasons why Dolph never had the run AJ got. If AJ came when Cena was more in his prime and he had to compete for top spots with Punk and Bryans, it's possible AJ wouldn't be in the position he's in either. We'll never know. So I won't say that Dolph didn't have the same degree of success as a champion because he's not as good as AJ. I will still say he's not as good as AJ regardless of that though.

[BigLbo]

AJ did compete in main events with multiple people... the difference being in AJ's case that's not the ONLY main events he ever appears in. Because again, AJ is a main eventer and Dolph is not.

but all of last year they were, xcept for the match with jinger that flopped. dolph isn't currently a main eventer, true but he doesn't have to be in order to be on the same level as AJ. i only pointed out dolph main eventing to show how much it really doesn't matter if one main evented 3 times and the other 1 and that again you're math or memory is poor.

And no, I didn't put Dolph and AJ in the same group. Dolph and Jinger are experiments to see if guys can be main eventers, while legit main eventers like AJ end the experiments when they don't work out.

still putting a negative light on AJ there.

Could AJ and Dolph switch positions? Yes. Could they easily switch positions? IMO no. AJ is in the position he is in because of how over he is and how much money he can generate (which presumably is pretty descent considering how large his page on WWE shopzone is). Is it possible for Dolph to get as over as AJ and have that many kids in the stands wear Dolph t shirts and hats and whatever? Maybe, but it's not easy to get to that level. If it were anyone could, or at least more people could.

AJ is in the position he's in because an xperiment failed, he's not anymore over than he was a couple of months ago when he was in the midcard. they didn't put the belt on him because he just got white hot and started moving more merch than before.

ANd that fact that we're even discussing them switching places tells us that they are indeed in different places. Which is my point. They wouldn't need to switch places if they were in the same group. That would be redundant.

And there are a lot of reasons why Dolph never had the run AJ got. If AJ came when Cena was more in his prime and he had to compete for top spots with Punk and Bryans, it's possible AJ wouldn't be in the position he's in either. We'll never know. So I won't say that Dolph didn't have the same degree of success as a champion because he's not as good as AJ. I will still say he's not as good as AJ regardless of that though.

obviously they're in different places, nobody said otherwise. he and orton are in different places but not on different levels as well.

if you can trade spots with somebody w/o making much if any difference, you're on the same level.

[XPac]

but all of last year they were, xcept for the match with jinger that flopped. dolph isn't currently a main eventer, true but he doesn't have to be in order to be on the same level as AJ. i only pointed out dolph main eventing to show how much it really doesn't matter if one main evented 3 times and the other 1 and that again you're math or memory is poor.

still putting a negative light on AJ there.



AJ is in the position he's in because an xperiment failed, he's not anymore over than he was a couple of months ago when he was in the midcard. they didn't put the belt on him because he just got white hot and started moving more merch than before.



obviously they're in different places, nobody said otherwise. he and orton are in different places but not on different levels as well.

if you can trade spots with somebody w/o making much if any difference, you're on the same level.

If one person is a main eventer and the other isn't, that alone puts them on 2 different levels . One is the level AJ is at, while the other is the level Ziggler wishes he was at.

Being something and hoping you are something are 2 very different things.

And whether or not there wouldn't be a difference with Ziggler in AJ spot remains to be seen. He gotta get there before he can prove he can carry the ball as well as AJ. Maybe Ziggler can, and maybe it'll just be another failed experiment. Or maybe he won't even get there and it won't matter. We'll see.

[steve2275]

im reading feb 2018 pwi female top 50 and i think its a crime that nikki cross is at #40
ruby riott 39 carmella 38

[TheInvisibleMan]

im reading feb 2018 pwi female top 50 and i think its a crime that nikki cross is at #40
ruby riott 38 carmella 38

wow...thats so incorrect

[steve2275]

among other wwe women
1 asuka 2 charlotte 3 miss bliss 4 sasha 5 bayley 7 natalya 9 naomi 10 kairi sane 12 shayna baszler 18 ember moon 19 becky lynch 22 nia jax 30 mickie james 35 abbey laith
the rest are non wwe

[XPac]

among other wwe women
1 asuka 2 charlotte 3 miss bliss 4 sasha 5 bayley 7 natalya 9 naomi 10 kairi sane 12 shayna baszler 18 ember moon 19 becky lynch 22 nia jax 30 mickie james 35 abbey laith
the rest are non wwe

Becky is 19? I'd at least put her ahead of Baszler.