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Thread: Wrestling WWE

  1. #64411
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal-El Summers View Post
    Bret's not necessarily wrong, though I'd argue it's more the fact that a modern pro wrestling crowd doesn't have the patience to sit through a 20-minute match built around selling a leg injury.
    I think the fans being different is a part of the difference, and it a lot of ways makes things harder for wrestlers today.

    Back in the day, to my recollection at least (and admittedly I might be wearing rose colored glasses to some degree), fans would cheer every face and boo every heel. That's part of the reason WWE could get away with so much enhancement talent matches on their TV programming. Now there's a 50/50 chance you'll bet boring chants for any match that goes over 15 minutes if there's not enough star power and storyline build up. The talent and bookers seem to need to work harder to keep the fans invested now.

  2. #64412
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal-El Summers View Post
    Vince is a promoter. Promoters are carny as all hell. I don't doubt that Bret wouldn't have taken the title with him, but he really shouldn't have been naive enough to let himself be put in a situation that'd allow the Screwjob to happen in the first place. Especially after being warned about doing so a few times in the days leading up to the SS match. Carnies are gonna carny, so never think you're above getting screwed over by one.
    I think both can be "faulted" for allowing to themselves to get in that situation. And I almost think faulted in the wrong word, since again I'll say in hindsight the screwjob ended up being the best possible outcome to the situation for both parties, so in hindsight I don't believe either should have changed a thing.


    But Vince should have been smart enough to realize if you give Bret creative control, sooner or later he will use it and you'll end up in situations exactly like this. And Bret frankly should have realized that he wasn't walking out of that arena with the belt.


    So maybe both were a little naïve in hindsight.

  3. #64413
    Astonishing Member Kal-El Summers's Avatar
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    Eh, Vince wasn't naive. He knew when Bret signed that 20-year contract that he couldn't afford it, which is why he went to Bret and talked about re-structuring after less than a year. He very much knew that Bret would balk and would ask to be released. Now, I don't think the Screwjob was in the works at exactly that moment, but damn near everything leading up to it was very much planned for by Vince and his inner circle.

  4. #64414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal-El Summers View Post
    Eh, Vince wasn't naive. He knew when Bret signed that 20-year contract that he couldn't afford it, which is why he went to Bret and talked about re-structuring after less than a year. He very much knew that Bret would balk and would ask to be released. Now, I don't think the Screwjob was in the works at exactly that moment, but damn near everything leading up to it was very much planned for by Vince and his inner circle.
    I think the part Vince was naïve about was giving Bret creative control. That's where Vince needed to be "creative" for lack of a better word to get what he needed. If not for that Bret wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

  5. #64415
    non-super & non-hero jump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Yeah Punk's no angel in this and he likely over-reacted to the lump sure on the podcast. But the doctor here claims he suffered from this and he admitted he suffered nothing negative job wise from it and he'd joke with wrestlers about this after it. This was like some cash in attempt and its only brought him negative attention. I have to think he'll be quietly fired after the case is over.
    What was really odd is in the build up to the case his lawyers were talking about how his insurance has gone up over this allegations which would have a real monetary value and some wrestlers with Owens being named as one as becoming hesitant to use him which seemed to have been dropped in the actual case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal-El Summers View Post
    Eh, Vince wasn't naive. He knew when Bret signed that 20-year contract that he couldn't afford it, which is why he went to Bret and talked about re-structuring after less than a year. He very much knew that Bret would balk and would ask to be released. Now, I don't think the Screwjob was in the works at exactly that moment, but damn near everything leading up to it was very much planned for by Vince and his inner circle.
    To be honest , reports was Vince didn't offer a restructuring deal. He told Bret he couldn't afford the deal to keep him and that he should contact WCW and get that offer back. Vince literally told Bret he no longer could afford to keep him.

    Quote Originally Posted by jump View Post
    What was really odd is in the build up to the case his lawyers were talking about how his insurance has gone up over this allegations which would have a real monetary value and some wrestlers with Owens being named as one as becoming hesitant to use him which seemed to have been dropped in the actual case.
    In the spots I have seen the lawyers never seemed to present that. All they discussed as personal pain he suffered was over tweets people made online. Like that was what they seemed to hang their hats on comically.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.
    “ Well hell just froze over. Because CM Punk is back in the WWE.” - Jcogginsa.
    “You can take the boy outta the mom’s basement, but you can’t take the mom’s basement outta the boy!” - LA Knight.
    "Revel in What You Are." Bray Wyatt.

  7. #64417
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    Disco Inferno discussed HHH and Kevin Nash in his shoot ....


    - He brings up that he would hang out with Hunter before he went off to WWF and while he waited out his brief WCW no compete clause deal. That he was waiting to be signed by WCW around this time and had a tryout. As Disco explained , when you were in Atlanta the guys would see each other working out and naturally they'd hang out through the week and go work the weekend and all. That him and Hunter would hang out and hit some strip bars together.



    - He did get a lil laugh from the fact that Hunter was very critical of Flair when he left and yet within a few years became friends with Flair. But as Disco explains its likely cause he got to know Ric Flair better by being around him there. And the same held true for him as Kevin and Scott came into WCW. That he was friends with them all backstage and that its funny how everyone became friends because they liked the business and all.



    - He brings up Hunter's quad injury and that him and Kevin were together and that they decided to go visit him at Doctor James Andrews hospital area where he works. And funny thing is Andrews works on so many wrestlers for injuries...he has a ring set up in rehab area. So Disco worked with Hunter in ring and all during the rehab deal to help him. Kevin also got in ring and helped him with rehab .


    - Disco is asked why he didn't get signed by WWE and Disco brings up that this was like 18 years ago now and from what he remembers is...him and Johnny Ace were cordial backstage but his friends would tell him how Ace would talk trash about him. How , I'm coming in to take over as VP of WCW and I'm gonna get rid of Disco Inferno. So maybe Ace didn't realize it but the guys he'd tell this to , would go tell Disco since they were very close to him.

    Also by the time WCW was going outta business ...he had been on booking committee 9 months and was exhausted from working it and being on the road. He's come home one day or two and have to go back Wednesday and do that. So by the time the company went down he was like....finally I can rest a bit.



    - Around this time he was contacted by Johnny Ace right when the guys were in WWE and all. Ace was like , were interested in bringing you in. But as Disco explains he had a couple quarters left on his contract. That he was just entering the 1st quarter of the deal and his entire contract was $350,000 a year guaranteed. And to sit at home and make a decent hunk of change with no work ? Be crazy to walk away from that type of deal. So he had heard stories how the WWE guys wasn't so happy to see the WCW guys at that time come in. Plus he was banking like $80,000+ grand that quarter for nothing.



    - As he explains he doesn't know exactly when they 1st had that talk if the quarter was ending or when it was starting since its been so long. He also doesn't know if he was supposed to contact them again or them him. Its been so long since then.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.
    “ Well hell just froze over. Because CM Punk is back in the WWE.” - Jcogginsa.
    “You can take the boy outta the mom’s basement, but you can’t take the mom’s basement outta the boy!” - LA Knight.
    "Revel in What You Are." Bray Wyatt.

  8. #64418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    The Ric Flair situation is different. At that the time Flair had ownership of the physical belt. When he appeared on WWF television with the belt he was billed as being the "real" world champion. Vince didn't bury the NWA world title while he had it. I'm sure Bischoff would have Bret throw the WWF title in a dumpster fire.
    Except that Bret would never have done that (heck even Alundra regrets doing that looking back). Nothing in Bret's past history pointed to him doing that, it was Vince's paranoia (and his weird love affair with HBK despite HBK being a nightmare to work with for pretty much everyone else at that point) getting the better of him.

    Honestly if I were advising Bret back then, I'd have told him to give Wendi Richter a call to see what he might be in for with Vince.

  9. #64419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Except that Bret would never have done that (heck even Alundra regrets doing that looking back). Nothing in Bret's past history pointed to him doing that, it was Vince's paranoia (and his weird love affair with HBK despite HBK being a nightmare to work with for pretty much everyone else at that point) getting the better of him.

    Honestly if I were advising Bret back then, I'd have told him to give Wendi Richter a call to see what he might be in for with Vince.
    I'm not sure Bret would have done it either, but the fact that it already happened once is nonetheless enough reason to ensure it won't happen again. I think the bottom line is you don't want Bret walking out of the building with the belt. If he's done with the company that night then therestart no reason he should have it.

    It's better to be overly cautious than to give him the benefits of the doubt, especially if he's unwilling to drop.

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    On Colt Cabana's latest podcast he went over the trial and how it all went down.


    - Cabana discussed the terrible stress he was under and how he was sick to his stomach daily having to go through this situation every day. That he had flu like symptoms and was suffering cramps in his stomach from it. That it was a terrible experience to go through.



    - CM Punk and him both broke down on the stand. That the Dr.'s lawyers tried painting how Punk never was hurt and the text messages and Punk reliving how hurt he was all year started in. Cabana detailed that you'd hear how Punk was constantly injured all year , how he was icing his body and having to work the next night and how it was never ending it seemed. Cabana's lawyer asked him if this was legit and Cabana was like...he's reliving that entire year of pain and all. Of course it is real.


    - Cabana's lawyer claims in 45 years he's never seen a jury come back so quick with a decision. That it was 45 minutes.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.
    “ Well hell just froze over. Because CM Punk is back in the WWE.” - Jcogginsa.
    “You can take the boy outta the mom’s basement, but you can’t take the mom’s basement outta the boy!” - LA Knight.
    "Revel in What You Are." Bray Wyatt.

  11. #64421
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    To be honest , reports was Vince didn't offer a restructuring deal. He told Bret he couldn't afford the deal to keep him and that he should contact WCW and get that offer back. Vince literally told Bret he no longer could afford to keep him.
    that's how i understand it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not sure Bret would have done it either, but the fact that it already happened once is nonetheless enough reason to ensure it won't happen again. I think the bottom line is you don't want Bret walking out of the building with the belt. If he's done with the company that night then therestart no reason he should have it.
    i really hope this is just some strange need you feel to defend vince/WWE, because if not that's a real shitty outlook to have.

    It's better to be overly cautious than to give him the benefits of the doubt, especially if he's unwilling to drop.
    i guess this is true if you're the kind of person who's word means nothing. and i guess that's the biggest difference between the 2.

  12. #64422
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    big shakeups in NJPW last night

  13. #64423
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Gaijins have all the heavyweight belts. New Japan must really want to sell out the Cow Palace show.

  14. #64424
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLbo View Post
    that's how i understand it as well.



    i really hope this is just some strange need you feel to defend vince/WWE, because if not that's a real shitty outlook to have.



    i guess this is true if you're the kind of person who's word means nothing. and i guess that's the biggest difference between the 2.
    I don't think it's all that shitty thinking that a champion leaving the company should have a world title leaving the company. Vince made the mistake of allowing that to happen once, and it cost him. He can't and shouldn't make that mistake with their world title. If he's going out the door, get the belt off him. That's just common sense.

    Do I think Vinces actions were questionable from a moral standpoint? Sure. But the fact that it leads to the best possible outcome for both Vince and frankly Bret himself makes it the better choice, even if it's not the nicer one. Vince got the belt back and planted the seeds for turning his company around, and Bret became the most talked about wrestler on the planet in argabuly the most famous moment in wrestling history. It should have been a win win situation. WCW bad booking sort of neutered that, but that's not on Vince.

  15. #64425
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I don't think it's all that shitty thinking that a champion leaving the company should have a world title leaving the company. Vince made the mistake of allowing that to happen once, and it cost him. He can't and shouldn't make that mistake with their world title. If he's going out the door, get the belt off him. That's just common sense.
    i mean the general idea that if somebody did something wrong to you that makes it's ok for you to do wrong to others to make sure it doesn't happen to you again.

    also vince still basically made the same mistake again with slapnuts.

    Do I think Vinces actions were questionable from a moral standpoint? Sure. But the fact that it leads to the best possible outcome for both Vince and frankly Bret himself makes it the better choice, even if it's not the nicer one. Vince got the belt back and planted the seeds for turning his company around, and Bret became the most talked about wrestler on the planet in argabuly the most famous moment in wrestling history. It should have been a win win situation. WCW bad booking sort of neutered that, but that's not on Vince.
    this makes me question if you know what a fact is.
    we have no idea how things would've worked out for bret had he not agreed to let vince out of their contract, or if he had simply took the money and went to WCW in 96.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Gaijins have all the heavyweight belts. New Japan must really want to sell out the Cow Palace show.
    i hope they stack the card, i just bought my tickets a couple of days ago. that said, should've been naito at WK.
    Last edited by BigLbo; 06-09-2018 at 06:46 AM.

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