Wrestling WWE

[BigLbo]

He actually won the fight because he came to fight.

If he wants to continue, go through amateurs and get out of Rufusports.

that's what's written on the inside of the "get well soon" cards next to his hospital bed.

[XPac]

they got enough damn titles to make that happen, but as long as mr ass isn't in the match i will be happy.



no we can't. we have no idea how things would've played out had bret stayed and renegotiated his contract(which most agree he was willing to do). he could've remained a top guy through out the attitude era and by not having his career ended in 2000 made more money over the years. he could've had programs with the rock, jericho, hhh, angle, benoit, brock, orton, cena etc.

and to go a step further it's possible that if he had stayed owen would never have had to do the blue blazer gimmick.

otoh had bret just took the quick easy money and went to WCW in 96 that opens a whole shitload of other possibilities.

yeah none of that is fact or factual.



are you under the impression WCW gave him a bonus for getting screwed??



so obvious you don't have to keep saying it.



there's no positive spin that can be put on this, he lasted 3 rds because the other guy was toying with him and the other guy is a scrub. that was a humiliation plain and simple. notice no post fight interview.

It's worth repeating that what happens to Bret once he is outside of WCW is outside of Vinces control, because that's a part of my point. Vince can't control what happens to Bret once he leaves WWE... but he can create a scenario where Bret becomes the most talked about person in wrestling. Moreso than he would have had he stayed in the WWE. Bret was a bigger star leaving the door than he was prior to that, and he was making more money... so he created a win win situation.

If WCW couldn't take advantage of that, that's on them. But Vince created a situation where both could benefit from it. Which is why it was the best move to make.

As for Punk... I'm not sure I'd say it was humiliation. But certainly he didn't look good. But he got paid a lot of money and went out there and tried. I think it arguably makes the UFC look bad (even though they made a lot of money too), but it's not like anyone really expected him to win.

[Immortal Weapon]

In the least you can say it went 3 rounds. That was mildly surprising. Not sure if that says more about PUnk or the guy he was competing against though.

Punk shouldn't have lasted three rounds. Mike Johnson could have ended it in the second. He was toying with him at that point.

[TheInvisibleMan]

Punk shouldn't have lasted three rounds. Mike Johnson could have ended it in the second. He was toying with him at that point.

Punk should have never been in the octagon in the first place, but Dana White is every bit the carnie Vince is

he can go write comics, chill with his wife, fade into obscurity for all I care

[BigLbo]

It's worth repeating that what happens to Bret once he is outside of WCW is outside of Vinces control, because that's a part of my point. Vince can't control what happens to Bret once he leaves WWE... but he can create a scenario where Bret becomes the most talked about person in wrestling. Moreso than he would have had he stayed in the WWE. Bret was a bigger star leaving the door than he was prior to that, and he was making more money... so he created a win win situation.

WCW paid him the same as they would have if the screwjob never happened, but we don't even need to get into WCW to prove turning out better for everyone is far from a fact.

but just because i know it's coming anyways, do you think vince had control of how WCW booked bret??

As for Punk... I'm not sure I'd say it was humiliation. But certainly he didn't look good. But he got paid a lot of money and went out there and tried. I think it arguably makes the UFC look bad (even though they made a lot of money too), but it's not like anyone really expected him to win.

it was. he didn't just not win, he wasn't even competitive and his opponent was making a fool of him with his antics like not even looking at him while punching his face.

punk's been training with world class guys for 4+ years, why shouldn't people xpect him to have a chance against mike jackson??

[BigLbo]

Punk shouldn't have lasted three rounds. Mike Johnson could have ended it in the second. He was toying with him at that point.

if mike jackson is able to pull anderson silva/sakuraba shit on you, you're just a terrible fighter.

[XPac]

WCW paid him the same as they would have if the screwjob never happened, but we don't even need to get into WCW to prove turning out better for everyone is far from a fact.

but just because i know it's coming anyways, do you think vince had control of how WCW booked bret??



it was. he didn't just not win, he wasn't even competitive and his opponent was making a fool of him with his antics like not even looking at him while punching his face.

punk's been training with world class guys for 4+ years, why shouldn't people xpect him to have a chance against mike jackson??

Sure WCW paid him the same if the screw job never happened... but the point is he got paid more post screwjob than pre-screw job. That plus getting the additional hype of the screw job meant Bret was better off walking out the door. And that's the most Vince can do for him within his power. Everyone walked out of the screwjob better off... which is why I would argue it was the right call to make at the time given what Vince knew and what Vince could control. That's why it was the best possible outcome. Nothing Vince could have done would have put him or Bret in a better position after Surivior Series.

And again, Punk did lose. But he lost a fight that most assumed he wouldn't win anyways … if there's seriously a person who predicted Punk would actually win I haven't seen it at least. I think more were surprised he lasted 3 rounds than they were he losed. He was outclassed and over his head, but showed heart.

Ultimately he tried and failed, but got a lot of money and spotlight out of a losing effort. Again, I don't think Punk looks bad going out of this. UFC maybe (though they likely made a nice profit out of him), but Punk doesn't really have a whole lot of be ashamed of. Given his age and background, he pretty much did what people expected.

[XPac]

Punk should have never been in the octagon in the first place, but Dana White is every bit the carnie Vince is

he can go write comics, chill with his wife, fade into obscurity for all I care

I can't say White did the right thing by allowing Punk to compete once let alone twice... but I almost can't blame him either. WIth all UFC's other big draws dropping like flies, the money and attention Punk drew had to have been attractive.

I'll be interesting to see what Punk does next. He's done a pretty good job keeping himself in relative spotlight post WWE so far, but I imagine his non-wrestling options are a bit more limited now.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I can't say White did the right thing by allowing Punk to compete once let alone twice... but I almost can't blame him either. WIth all UFC's other big draws dropping like flies, the money and attention Punk drew had to have been attractive.

I'll be interesting to see what Punk does next. He's done a pretty good job keeping himself in relative spotlight post WWE so far, but I imagine his non-wrestling options are a bit more limited now.

I certainly understand the appeal, the UFC has some decent to good fighters but no personalities, they are all boring AF

part of your job as a fighter, be it boxing or MMA, is to get people interested and promote your fights - most aren't going to be interested on the fight alone, the steak needs some sizzle

CM Punk moves the needle a bit, so I get it

[XPac]

I certainly understand the appeal, the UFC has some decent to good fighters but no personalities, they are all boring AF

part of your job as a fighter, be it boxing or MMA, is to get people interested and promote your fights - most aren't going to be interested on the fight alone, the steak needs some sizzle

CM Punk moves the needle a bit, so I get it

Part of me thinks UFC would be better off going the WWE route to SOME degree.

Obviously they need to keep it a legit sport, but maybe adding more entrance music, pyro, and having them take promo classes and develop things like catch phrases and such might help. It cheapens UFC to a degree, but signing Punk twice pretty much throws that out the window anyways.

[TheInvisibleMan]

Part of me thinks UFC would be better off going the WWE route to SOME degree.

Obviously they need to keep it a legit sport, but maybe adding more entrance music, pyro, and having them take promo classes and develop things like catch phrases and such might help. It cheapens UFC to a degree, but signing Punk twice pretty much throws that out the window anyways.

honestly, thats all thats needed...UFCs production is pretty damn good and they have guys who use actual licensed music - its just personality wise UFC FIGHTERS ARE VANILLA AND BORING

[BigLbo]

Sure WCW paid him the same if the screw job never happened... but the point is he got paid more post screwjob than pre-screw job. That plus getting the additional hype of the screw job meant Bret was better off walking out the door. And that's the most Vince can do for him within his power. Everyone walked out of the screwjob better off... which is why I would argue it was the right call to make at the time given what Vince knew and what Vince could control. That's why it was the best possible outcome. Nothing Vince could have done would have put him or Bret in a better position after Surivior Series.

the screw job really didn't help bret at all, but again that's all opinion not fact which is the point.

And again, Punk did lose. But he lost a fight that most assumed he wouldn't win anyways … if there's seriously a person who predicted Punk would actually win I haven't seen it at least. I think more were surprised he lasted 3 rounds than they were he losed. He was outclassed and over his head, but showed heart.

Ultimately he tried and failed, but got a lot of money and spotlight out of a losing effort. Again, I don't think Punk looks bad going out of this. UFC maybe (though they likely made a nice profit out of him), but Punk doesn't really have a whole lot of be ashamed of. Given his age and background, he pretty much did what people expected.

sorry but no, he was embarrassed that's why he ran away and didn't stick around for the interview.

you can't give credit for lasting 3 rds when he only lasted because the guy was playing with him. mike jackson isn't some young up and coming prospect either, punk himself called jackson a can. with 5yrs of training at a top camp there's no reason he shouldn't be able to compete with mike jackson.

[XPac]

the screw job really didn't help bret at all, but again that's all opinion not fact which is the point.



sorry but no, he was embarrassed that's why he ran away and didn't stick around for the interview.

you can't give credit for lasting 3 rds when he only lasted because the guy was playing with him. mike jackson isn't some young up and coming prospect either, punk himself called jackson a can. with 5yrs of training at a top camp there's no reason he shouldn't be able to compete with mike jackson.

Honestly I think you can give him credit for even stepping into the Octagon.

But if you listen to the narrative, especially being created by White the one who got humiliated wasn't Punk. It was Jackson. PUnk had heart for hanging in there against someone who clearly outclassed him, while Jackson showboated and look stupid failing to put away an inferior fighter.

The stupid manner in which Jackson handled the fight actually created a narrative where Jackson looks bad, not the other way around. I think Jackson ended up doing Punk a favor actually. Punk was going to lose, whether Jackson put him away quickly or not. But by having it go 3 rounds and leaving it to the judges, it allowed Punk to show that despite being outclassed he still had heart. And it showed Jackson being an idiot, which helps to overshadow Punks loss at least a little.

[TheInvisibleMan]

what is it going to take for silly ass wrestling fans to put it out of their head that Punk is NEVER EVER going to wrestle again?

[Royal]

Honestly I think you can give him credit for even stepping into the Octagon.

But if you listen to the narrative, especially being created by White the one who got humiliated wasn't Punk. It was Jackson. PUnk had heart for hanging in there against someone who clearly outclassed him, while Jackson showboated and look stupid failing to put away an inferior fighter.

The stupid manner in which Jackson handled the fight actually created a narrative where Jackson looks bad, not the other way around. I think Jackson ended up doing Punk a favor actually. Punk was going to lose, whether Jackson put him away quickly or not. But by having it go 3 rounds and leaving it to the judges, it allowed Punk to show that despite being outclassed he still had heart. And it showed Jackson being an idiot, which helps to overshadow Punks loss at least a little.

It also showed that Duke Rufus robbed Punk of every cent.