Wrestling WWE

[steve2275]

well, i can't eat them. lol.

neither can i

[sirmarkus]

You thought Jericho's recent WWE run was lackluster? Really? I thought his last run with Owens was arguably his best in the company.

Agreed, The List, the festival of friendship, the U.S. Title run. Jericho is the man.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You thought Jericho's recent WWE run was lackluster? Really? I thought his last run with Owens was arguably his best in the company.

Agreed, The List, the festival of friendship, the U.S. Title run. Jericho is the man.

The Owens stuff really while great for Jericho and funny ....seemed to put Owens in a mode where he needed the help as a heel. So yeah funny stuff for the whole list deal he'd do. But it was like , when is Owens gonna pull the trigger and showcase his true evil side.

[BigLbo]

I'm not making anything up in the slightest. He's making it very clear he wants another shot in the UFC. I'm sure he can find work elsewhere... but he clearly still wants another shot at UFC. Which isn't that shocking since that's where most MMA guys probably want to land if they can.

well of course he does(punk probably does too), that's the best chance for the biggest payday but in no way does that mean he's worse off than before the fight. before the fight he had $20,000 less in his pocket and a lot fewer options for less pay.

did you know that even if jackson had defeated mickey gall back in 2016 he was not lined up to get another fight in the UFC?? that's how interested UFC was in him.

you guys keep saying nobody thought punk could win and the odds of a win were impossible but mike jackson was selected as the opponent specifically because they thought punk could win or at least put up a good fight. that's why dana was pissed because not only did punk lose, he lost in a humiliating fashion. if punk had got KOed they could've framed it as "he went out on his shield/went down in a blaze of glory/fought like a warrior but came up short" and all that allows dana to save face. instead he calls jackson an idiot to deflect attention from his own stupidity for putting the fight on the main card in the 1st place.

The Owens stuff really while great for Jericho and funny ....seemed to put Owens in a mode where he needed the help as a heel. So yeah funny stuff for the whole list deal he'd do. But it was like , when is Owens gonna pull the trigger and showcase his true evil side.

they didn't want that from him at the time though, the authority was still around. when steen finally turned on jericho though, that was one of the best moments on RAW that year.

[XPac]

The Owens stuff really while great for Jericho and funny ....seemed to put Owens in a mode where he needed the help as a heel. So yeah funny stuff for the whole list deal he'd do. But it was like , when is Owens gonna pull the trigger and showcase his true evil side.

I thought Owens showcased his evil side in the Festival of friendship.

But I think the thing about Owens is that he's funny. And funny heels just tend to seem less "evil" because they are entertaining and fans like them. It's why funny heels tend to end up faces, even when they are often better heels.

But the point being, I though Jericho was great during that period. Showed he's still got a lot to offer, and still arguably one of the best in the world.

[XPac]

well of course he does(punk probably does too), that's the best chance for the biggest payday but in no way does that mean he's worse off than before the fight. before the fight he had $20,000 less in his pocket and a lot fewer options for less pay.

did you know that even if jackson had defeated mickey gall back in 2016 he was not lined up to get another fight in the UFC?? that's how interested UFC was in him.

you guys keep saying nobody thought punk could win and the odds of a win were impossible but mike jackson was selected as the opponent specifically because they thought punk could win or at least put up a good fight. that's why dana was pissed because not only did punk lose, he lost in a humiliating fashion. if punk had got KOed they could've framed it as "he went out on his shield/went down in a blaze of glory/fought like a warrior but came up short" and all that allows dana to save face. instead he calls jackson an idiot to deflect attention from his own stupidity for putting the fight on the main card in the 1st place.



they didn't want that from him at the time though, the authority was still around. when steen finally turned on jericho though, that was one of the best moments on RAW that year.

He put the fight on the main card because it would draw money. That's no secret. It's the only reason he was hired in the first place despite having no fighting or even any legit athletic background in the first place. Everyone knew he didn't deserve being there... but they also knew people would watch.

It's why no one was surprised and no one really expected him to win. If there's seriously a person alive that predicted Punk would even beat Jackson, I haven't seen evidence of it. I won't go so far as to say impossible because in any fight anyone can get lucky and flukes can happen... but I'll say again, I think far more people were surprised it lasted as long as it did than were surprised Punk lost.

[BigLbo]

He put the fight on the main card because it would draw money. That's no secret. It's the only reason he was hired in the first place despite having no fighting or even any legit athletic background in the first place. Everyone knew he didn't deserve being there... but they also knew people would watch.

no shit, my point was that it made dana & the company look foolish so he blamed jackson instead of himself. the fight was so bad it wasn't worth the embarrassment and he regretted the decision.

It's why no one was surprised and no one really expected him to win. If there's seriously a person alive that predicted Punk would even beat Jackson, I haven't seen evidence of it. I won't go so far as to say impossible because in any fight anyone can get lucky and flukes can happen... but I'll say again, I think far more people were surprised it lasted as long as it did than were surprised Punk lost.

off the top of my head

I asked @mickeygall who he thought would win between CM Punk and Mike Jackson this weekend. He’s their common opponent after all.

“MJ does have more experience,” he said. “He has more hard-wired skill. MJ should win.

“But I’m picking CM Punk.”

— Ariel Helwani (@arielhelwani) June 6, 2018

Gall added, “Punk lasted 2:14 with me, which is pretty impressive. MJ lasted only :45. Punk has almost triple the time of ufc experience.”

but that's beside the point. we've been over this 100 times but it's not that he lost, it's that the fight wasn't even competitive when jackson was brought in specifically because they felt punk had a solid chance to beat him.

yes, it was surprising jackson didn't want to finish punk when he could've easily. nobody saw that coming.

[XPac]

no shit, my point was that it made dana & the company look foolish so he blamed jackson instead of himself. the fight was so bad it wasn't worth the embarrassment and he regretted the decision.



off the top of my head


but that's beside the point. we've been over this 100 times but it's not that he lost, it's that the fight wasn't even competitive when jackson was brought in specifically because they felt punk had a solid chance to beat him.

yes, it was surprising jackson didn't want to finish punk when he could've easily. nobody saw that coming.

I think Gall's statement pretty much illustrates why a loss doesn't mean as much to Punk as Jackson. He flat out said MJ should win... and I think that's pretty much the consensus. Even the people picking PUnk to win are saying Jackson SHOULD win. The fact that he lasted as long as he did favors Punk and hurts Jackson.

Yes, it was surprising that Jackson didn't want to finish PUnk when he could have... and that's why he was publically called an idiot and fired. People were surprised to learn he was an idiot. He took his profession lightly on a big stage, and he got called out on it.

[BigLbo]

I think Gall's statement pretty much illustrates why a loss doesn't mean as much to Punk as Jackson. He flat out said MJ should win... and I think that's pretty much the consensus. Even the people picking PUnk to win are saying Jackson SHOULD win. The fact that he lasted as long as he did favors Punk and hurts Jackson.

you've either lost your mind or just trying way too hard. he said he "should" win, not that he should beat him the way a man would beat a child.

also the 3 rd beating sent punk to the hospital and jackson to an after party, so clearly it hurt punk more.

Yes, it was surprising that Jackson didn't want to finish PUnk when he could have... and that's why he was publically called an idiot and fired. People were surprised to learn he was an idiot. He took his profession lightly on a big stage, and he got called out on it.

still can't figure out where you're getting this fired stuff from, he had a one fight deal and fought one time. also being called an idiot by dana white is like being called an idiot by donald trump.

[XPac]

you've either lost your mind or just trying way too hard. he said he "should" win, not that he should beat him the way a man would beat a child.

also the 3 rd beating sent punk to the hospital and jackson to an after party, so clearly it hurt punk more.



still can't figure out where you're getting this fired stuff from, he had a one fight deal and fought one time. also being called an idiot by dana white is like being called an idiot by donald trump.

No, he didn't say anything about a man beating a child... just that he thinks Jackson should win. Pretty much everyone thinks Jackson should win (even apparently the people picking Punk), which is the point.

As far as expectations go, Punk basically can't lose because he can't win. Everyone thinks the other guy should beat him, so it doesn't really effect him if we get the end result everyone thinks should happen anyways.

ANd being called an idiot by the guy you ideally you want to work for is sort of a problem for Jackson. If I wanted a job at the White House, I certainly wouldn't want Trump calling me an idiot and saying I've never gonna work there. Jackson essentially shot himself in the foot.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

In shoot from a couple weeks ago Nash described how Diamond Dallas Page got pushed. Which he claims wasn't due to Bischoff.


- As he brings up the whole NWO angle was running hot and around this time they had started to grow the group. Buff joined and a couple others. So him and Scott was always close to Page backstage. As he claims its was Diamond who stopped him from quitting the business back in WCW days and told him to stick around. It was Diamond who saw Scott Hall and told folks , he should be the Diamond Studd and came up with that for him to use on WCW TV.





So Nash was a big believer as was Scott Hall in paying a guy back. So they watched Page work a mid-card match and as soon as he nailed his diamond cutter finisher the place erupted. So him and Scott was like , he's really over but in mid-card. We can take him to a whole other level if done right. So they both went to Bischoff and pitched the angle they wanted to run with Page (who was all for it).


- The entire angle was well planned. That folks saw everyone jumping NWO and the overall angle at this point still had these inter-programs WCW was running with Dungeon vs 4 Horsemen. But the angle was about to go bigger and really start the WCW vs NWO Civil War deal as the group was growing. So at a big arena Nitro they do this and it was supposed to be a 12 minute deal where Page rejects the NWO offer. Well Nitro is running live and things are changing and a nervous Page ran up seconds before they were due to all come out , "We got 4 minutes !" Nash was like the hell we do , cause it takes me 4 minutes to walk to the damn ring and were gonna do it the way its planned. So they pretty much cut something else outta the show to do it later lol. He nails both diamond cutters and runs out as fans explode and it got DDP over to the next level.



- Someone brings up the NWO Wolfpac (Red & White) vs the NWO regular group. And Nash brings up that the Wolfpac was originally just a funny side name him , Scott and Syxx would call themselves as a trio. It was never supposed to be bigger than them 3. But by 1998 changes started happening and Bischoff told him he wanted to grow the NWO into a sub group and NWO Wolfpac was born. Also the fact he had heat with Hulk Hogan at the time in real life (will explain later).

Anyhow the NWO Wolfpac had him , Scott , Konnan , Randy Savage , Lex Luger and finally the big one was getting Sting to join the group. Which as he says had a huge arena pop when he took the shirt.


- But the heat with Hogan began when Hulk had this saying , I'm the tree with the golden apples and usually i drop a golden apple for folks to grow with themselves. But Hall & Nash wanna chop the golden tree down and take all the apples. Nash admits him and Hall then were assholes who wanted to make as much money as possible. That was what it was about. Hulk was earning $750,000 a year contract wise. So Nash told Hall , we can get that if we push hard enough. If we go hard enough Hulk will tell the folks running the place to pay us bigger. Which eventually did happen !

[BigLbo]

No, he didn't say anything about a man beating a child... just that he thinks Jackson should win. Pretty much everyone thinks Jackson should win (even apparently the people picking Punk), which is the point.

As far as expectations go, Punk basically can't lose because he can't win. Everyone thinks the other guy should beat him, so it doesn't really effect him if we get the end result everyone thinks should happen anyways.

do you really not see the difference between simply losing and not even being competitive?? especially when a guy is specially brought in to make it a competitive fight??

ANd being called an idiot by the guy you ideally you want to work for is sort of a problem for Jackson. If I wanted a job at the White House, I certainly wouldn't want Trump calling me an idiot and saying I've never gonna work there. Jackson essentially shot himself in the foot.

essentially shooting yourself in the foot isn't really humiliating most of the time, people make mistakes. however none of that matters because he wasn't going to fight in the UFC again anyways. who could a 1-1 fighter like jackson fight?? they aren't going to bring somebody in just for him like they did punk.

now that i think about it this whole thing has turned jackson into the uncrowned champion of the UFC WW division. he was brought in to lose but instead whipped the golden boy and now dana is scared he's going to further embarrass him by running through the whole division so he "fired" him.

i know you said jackson was like apollo creed but he's more like the pikey 1 punch mickey o'neil.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

essentially shooting yourself in the foot isn't really humiliating most of the time, people make mistakes. however none of that matters because he wasn't going to fight in the UFC again anyways. who could a 1-1 fighter like jackson fight?? they aren't going to bring somebody in just for him like they did punk.

now that i think about it this whole thing has turned jackson into the uncrowned champion of the UFC WW division. he was brought in to lose but instead whipped the golden boy and now dana is scared he's going to further embarrass him by running through the whole division so he "fired" him.

i know you said jackson was like apollo creed but he's more like the pikey 1 punch mickey o'neil.

Well unlike a WWE angle , this really isn't the case. I mean where do you leap from a guy who really should have beaten someone like Punk within a round to suddenly he's some uncrowned champion because he screwed around for 3 rounds and didn't ? I mean if its the amount of folks calling him an idiot like Dana White and somehow your thinking , well in a wrestling angle he would do this ....then no. UFC isn't pro wrestling , they aren't doing storylines for Mike Jackson to go from everyone calling him an idiot to uncrowned champion.

In the end Jackson likely will be defined by this. He had someone he clearly should have put away in one round. Instead he screwed around and demonstrated that the guy who lost came out looking way better than he did.

[XPac]

do you really not see the difference between simply losing and not even being competitive?? especially when a guy is specially brought in to make it a competitive fight??



essentially shooting yourself in the foot isn't really humiliating most of the time, people make mistakes. however none of that matters because he wasn't going to fight in the UFC again anyways. who could a 1-1 fighter like jackson fight?? they aren't going to bring somebody in just for him like they did punk.

now that i think about it this whole thing has turned jackson into the uncrowned champion of the UFC WW division. he was brought in to lose but instead whipped the golden boy and now dana is scared he's going to further embarrass him by running through the whole division so he "fired" him.

i know you said jackson was like apollo creed but he's more like the pikey 1 punch mickey o'neil.

When shooting yourself in the foot involves you being publically told that you're an idiot and you need to go back to sound what you did before. That's where it becomes humiliating ... the fact that after a high profile file he's publically ragged. It becomes the narrative. Basically we're talking about it now because of how Jackson acted and how White responded.

[steve2275]

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