Most radical power creeps and nerf

[marhawkman]

Magneto is one of the few guys I think worked better at an obscene power-level, because that power is coupled with his crippling depression. Magneto is someone so haunted by grief that he is a washed out shell of a man. There's something oddly compelling about someone who is almost too depressed to breath yet who can move mountains with a thought.

Unfortunately, I think Magneto's success influenced the writing of a lot of other villains for the worse. Back in the early nineties is when you start to see a lot of villains jacked up to insane levels, but without the crippling depression that makes Magneto's near omnipotence work narratively. Magneto was the top villain of the most successful comic in the world, so suddenly every villain had to be Magneto-level-powerful.

Yeah, it reminds me of a thing MaRo said about writing villains: the bad guy needs to have some advantage over the hero to be a threat. that doesn't mean that the "Big Bad" needs to be able to personally beat the hero one on one. It could just be that the big bad doesn't NEED to fight you one on one at all, for any reasons, ever, as part of his goals. In fact, a mano-a-mano confrontation might be what he wants to avoid.... might.

[MichaelC]

I think villains need to have both strengths and weaknesses. Magneto's strengths are being nearly omnipotent, and having a relatable cause that gets many mutants on his side. His weakness is that he is crushingly depressed and haunted, which often makes him relatively passive for a supervillain.

Doctor Doom's strengths are that he is both a mad scientist and a mad wizard. His weakness is that he is the embodiment of the hubris that made Reed Richards insist on going into space despite being warned by his pilot that the radiation shielding was too low, and thereby getting that pilot turned into a gross freak. As such, his scientific experiments tend to blow up in his face, and his magical experiments tend to get him blown to Hell. Doom should never be hyper-competent, as that detracts from the weakness that makes him the evil Mister Fantastic. I think that some writers miss that and give him a hypercompetence that misses the point of the character.

The Mandarin is master of weapons engineering, a master of money, a devious tactician, and a savage super-strong mystic martial artist. He is, in short, a human Ares. His weakness is that, as the embodiment of Tony Stark's past as warmonger, he is easily enraged and impatient, resulting in sloppiness. Some writers miss that and jack up the power of the rings waaayyy too much, making everything that makes him an evil Iron Man fall by the wayside. Near omnipotence doesn't synergize with the Mandarin's defining traits the way it does with Magneto's crushing depression.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think villains need to have both strengths and weaknesses. Magneto's strengths are being nearly omnipotent, and having a relatable cause that gets many mutants on his side. His weakness is that he is crushingly depressed and haunted, which often makes him relatively passive for a supervillain.

Doctor Doom's strengths are that he is both a mad scientist and a mad wizard. His weakness is that he is the embodiment of the hubris that made Reed Richards insist on going into space despite being warned by his pilot that the radiation shielding was too low, and thereby getting that pilot turned into a gross freak. As such, his scientific experiments tend to blow up in his face, and his magical experiments tend to get him blown to Hell. Doom should never be hyper-competent, as that detracts from the weakness that makes him the evil Mister Fantastic. I think that some writers miss that and give him a hypercompetence that misses the point of the character.

The Mandarin is master of weapons engineering, a master of money, a devious tactician, and a savage super-strong mystic martial artist. He is, in short, a human Ares. His weakness is that, as the embodiment of Tony Stark's past as warmonger, he is easily enraged and impatient, resulting in sloppiness. Some writers miss that and jack up the power of the rings waaayyy too much, making everything that makes him an evil Iron Man fall by the wayside. Near omnipotence doesn't synergize with the Mandarin's defining traits the way it does with Magneto's crushing depression.

Those are pretty good points, especially as a matter of compare/contrast with the heroes they oppose, or serving as magnified reflections of those heroes' flaws.

[nx01a]

So what's the problem then?
On one hand you are saying that "overpowered" characters are boring but now you say that in stories they tend to be reduced in power which is correct. Powerful characters not using their full power all the time is common and for multiple reasons. Either they need preparation, it takes a strain on them, they run the risk of losing control, doing so would lead to collateral damage, etc.
Like there are all kind of story reasons as for why these characters simply don't obliterate everything in their way which kinda voids the argument against them.

So why have anyone that powerful when all you do is nerf them? Either they're so powerful that they trivialize any conflict or mental and logistical gymnastics are required to explain why they're not using their ridiculous powers to full effect.
There is zero suspense seeing Superman stopping a bank robbery. It's also boring hearing for the umpteenth time how he has to let humanity make its own way, and not eradicate war and poverty and famine and disease in a few days. You'd have to go Doomsday or Darkseid before there's any real concern for Kal. It's why cosmic Marvel doesn't work when you stick those characters on Earth for extended periods: the power disparity is just too great. Even Reed Richards and Tony Stark could end basic human problems by releasing a few choice inventions. Imagine if everyone who lost a limb could get a bionic one like Misty Knight or the world had multiple alien clean power sources.

Anyway... Hex Bolts = Good & Creative. Reality Warping = Bad & Boring.
/exits thread

[mung]

The one, an android that Iron fist fights in his first appearance and he was able knock it's head off with one punch of his iron fist. That android comes back in Living weapon and destroys K'lun and everyone in it including Shou-lao the undying. iirc Danny breaks his hands trying to punch it with the Iron fist.

[Baron of Faltine]

So why have anyone that powerful when all you do is nerf them? Either they're so powerful that they trivialize any conflict or mental and logistical gymnastics are required to explain why they're not using their ridiculous powers to full effect.
There is zero suspense seeing Superman stopping a bank robbery. It's also boring hearing for the umpteenth time how he has to let humanity make its own way, and not eradicate war and poverty and famine and disease in a few days. You'd have to go Doomsday or Darkseid before there's any real concern for Kal. It's why cosmic Marvel doesn't work when you stick those characters on Earth for extended periods: the power disparity is just too great. Even Reed Richards and Tony Stark could end basic human problems by releasing a few choice inventions. Imagine if everyone who lost a limb could get a bionic one like Misty Knight or the world had multiple alien clean power sources.

Anyway... Hex Bolts = Good & Creative. Reality Warping = Bad & Boring.
/exits thread

As I see it there are few instances were power creep is justified and acceptable
1) the power of the hero/villain are tied to willpower, usually being form of control type. Make sense that the more focused the character is the more can do. Albeit should be shown as an effort, at least in case of heroes. Villai s should have eth eopposite issue, they let way too much output and lack finess and control because most are...narcissistic egomaniacs who over estimate themselves on many many levels
2) the characters abilities are tied to a specific environmental conditions if not a specific moment in time. Can be powerful but only in water, close to britain, and so on. Outside these situatioon their powers are more on the manageable side for writers. ( sometimes I wonder how powerful Magneto could be around a magnetic star-yes they are a real thing)
3) the power up is temporary because have dire side effect. Can punch god but will die afterward situation thing. Is always nice reminding that there are still human like limits to our characters.
4) powercreep is result of new use of power rather than simply "make it more powerful" usually combined with more clear knowledge of what the effect the power cause can actually do(iceman is nice example. Since effect of freezing on human body are now more known, his powers can be REALLY scary...not talking about exactly what his power mean from energy point of view...slow time? Kinetic energy? Thermal energy? In all case just conjuring a snowball out of nothing require an insane level of energy loss!)
Any other case seem the easy get out jail trick of authors who painted themselves in a corner.

[Alan2099]

There is zero suspense seeing Superman stopping a bank robbery. It's also boring hearing for the umpteenth time how he has to let humanity make its own way, and not eradicate war and poverty and famine and disease in a few days.

The Superman problem is that people forget most of his stories when he was at his most powerful were more about coming up with creative solutions to problems and tricking people. It wasn't about beating up Lex Luthor's robot, he had to trick Luthor into believing he was leaving the planet for good, so Luthor would deactivate his robot and brag (confess) about his crimes so he could bet arrested by the police (and Superman dressed up as police). Writers today just don't want to try to be smart and creative unless it's people like Grant Morrison who's confused smart and creative with completely incomprehensible.

[marhawkman]

The Superman problem is that people forget most of his stories when he was at his most powerful were more about coming up with creative solutions to problems and tricking people. It wasn't about beating up Lex Luthor's robot, he had to trick Luthor into believing he was leaving the planet for good, so Luthor would deactivate his robot and brag (confess) about his crimes so he could bet arrested by the police (and Superman dressed up as police). Writers today just don't want to try to be smart and creative unless it's people like Grant Morrison who's confused smart and creative with completely incomprehensible.

Oh, is that who wrote this?

Hehehe

but yeah, one thing someone said years ago about writing Superman is that success/failure for Superman as a hero.... isn't always a fight to the death for Superman's survival. It could be a matter of IF superman is fast enough to find a way to stop the bad guy. what is the bad guy's plan? what is Superman going to do about it?

[Username taken]

Just going through some old X-men titles and I noticed how badly Cable has been nerfed.

The guy became an old man with a gun for a long time.

I think he's been recovered but he hasn't been at his 90s level for a long time. I think the last time he showed how powerful he is was in X-Sanction.