Clones and Alternative copies

[ExodusCloak]

You probably have 6 Sinister's including the one who already achieved Dominion

[Ambaryerno]

The examples you framed as really well-done were characters who were NOT introduced as clones at first.

What are you talking about? Laura was known to be a clone from pretty much the start (it was established in X-Men Evolution, which carried over when she was introduced in the books).

[Micabe]

We got Jean and Maddie, Cable Nate Grey and Stryfe. Who knows how many Labs Sinister has of other people.

Umm... Nate Grey is an Alternate Universe, test tube baby, genetically engineered by Earth-295 Mister Sinister using the DNA of Cyclops and Jean Grey ergo, he isn't actually a clone like the "XY-less" Frostitutes

X-Man #1 (Flashback) (1997)

You probably have 6 Sinister's including the one who already achieved Dominion

Hmm... Being that there are only four face cards in a deck how can there possibly be a fifth and sixth Sinister? Personally, and I could be totally wrong here but, I came to the conclusion that it was Moria herself who was the one who actually achieved Dominion.

[norj]

Umm... Nate Grey is an Alternate Universe, test tube baby, genetically engineered by Earth-295 Mister Sinister using the DNA of Cyclops and Jean Grey ergo, he isn't actually a clone like the "XY-less" Frostitutes

X-Man #1 (Flashback) (1997)

Hmm... Being that there are only four face cards in a deck how can there possibly be a fifth and sixth Sinister? Personally, and I could be totally wrong here but, I came to the conclusion that it was Moria herself who was the one who actually achieved Dominion.

There is always a Joker.

[JB]

Yeah plus the original Essex who made the four clones. We don't know what exactly happened to him in that Immortal issue when that red light approached him.

The Brood made the dominion. Cyclops was right.

[Kurolegacy]

All of these aspects of clones going in and yet we can’t get Evan resurrected after he was the only character killed off in Age of X-Man. You’d really think that after his entire narrative of not becoming Apocalypse and how they changed the rules after Gabby was killed that someone would have brought him back by now.

[Harasar]

All of these aspects of clones going in and yet we can’t get Evan resurrected after he was the only character killed off in Age of X-Man. You’d really think that after his entire narrative of not becoming Apocalypse and how they changed the rules after Gabby was killed that someone would have brought him back by now.

Would be funny for Apocalypse to have both his wife and clone to go by "Genesis" at the same time Let Cable's son return and there would be three of them But TBH I would rather like to see Apoc's wife and family more developed than return of his clone.

[Sutekh]

Hmm... Being that there are only four face cards in a deck how can there possibly be a fifth and sixth Sinister?

Well, a fifth being the original who made the first four playing-card themed clones, if he's even still alive.

As for clones, the only one's I really like are Laura and Evan Sabah Nur. Maybe Gabby, to a lesser extent, if only because I'm not quite so old and bitter as to wish for a child to go away.

Would be funny for Apocalypse to have both his wife and clone to go by "Genesis" at the same time Let Cable's son return and there would be three of them But TBH I would rather like to see Apoc's wife and family more developed than return of his clone.

Ha, Tyler, Evan and 'Genesis' all looking at each other and Evan says to Apocalypse's wife, "Well, the rest of us have other names, so you can keep Genesis."

[Harasar]

Well, a fifth being the original who made the first four playing-card themed clones, if he's even still alive.

A fifth Sinister - is Miss Sinister. IIRC she is a sort of clone of Sinister, but not really. More like how everyone were in SoS, she was a real woman who got injected with Sinister's virus and became a version of his. Sort of.

Ha, Tyler, Evan and 'Genesis' all looking at each other and Evan says to Apocalypse's wife, "Well, the rest of us have other names, so you can keep Genesis."

Yeah it is weird how neither she, nor any of their kids have their names revealed. At least I expect what they have names, and Apoc and Genesis hadn't really named their kids War, Death, etc. Like, "Oh, sweetie, look our little baby girl have a fire instead of head, she reminds me of that village we put on fire. Remember? Let's name her War!" Was it like this?

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Well, a fifth being the original who made the first four playing-card themed clones, if he's even still alive.

we could have a (or two) jokers and we have original diamond that was made back in the cyclops and jean time travel story in 1800s, and at least 1 hit Domion status (maybe I still think it would be funny if none of them do) plus mrs sinister

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Umm... Nate Grey is an Alternate Universe, test tube baby, genetically engineered by Earth-295 Mister Sinister using the DNA of Cyclops and Jean Grey ergo, he isn't actually a clone like the "XY-less" Frostitutes

Xman always bugged me... I have friends that have a family of 7 brothers, my grandfather on my dads side was 1 of 9 boys my grandmothers on my moms side had 6 brothers and sisters

all of those are examples of people that have the same genetic soup (aka mom and dad) so Xman and Cable SHOULD be more like a set of brothers maybe twins maybe not... but not a clone of each other

[Sutekh]

Yeah it is weird how neither she, nor any of their kids have their names revealed. At least I expect what they have names, and Apoc and Genesis hadn't really named their kids War, Death, etc. Like, "Oh, sweetie, look our little baby girl have a fire instead of head, she reminds me of that village we put on fire. Remember? Let's name her War!" Was it like this?

I love the idea of there being four horsemen, and the originals being kids of Apocalypse and Genesis, but I don't love the idea that *all four of them* survived a couple thousand years of war, first against endless hordes of Amenthi demons, later, after Genesis surrendered and became Annihilation, all the (millions?) of mutants who *didn't* surrender and the demons (led by her now) ended up oppressing and opposing for many centuries. I already don't like that all four just happened to inherit the 'rents immortality, since that seems pretty improbable by itself, but not a single one of them, most with *no defensive power at all* survived those endless centuries of conflict?

(That said, Genesis is supposed to be an Omega at life-manipulation, which she's always used on panel to make vines sprout up and attack people, but might be as good at healing and even resurrection as Elixir, who is also an Omega life-manipulator, with ~2000 years less experience at developing that power... So it's entirely possible that the demons, or later the mutants she was oppressing on behalf of the demons, managed to maim or kill some of her children several times over the centuries!)

It's also possible that the Horsemen might have some defensive utility to their powers we haven't seen. Death, for instance, might not just kill people, but might drain their life-force into himself, like Selene, making him tougher (and harder to kill!) the more he kills. The more people fall before him, the harder he is to put down! But we really haven't seen any of that. If Pestilence can dissolve into a swarm of bugs, for instance, and does so when attacked, flying away in all directions to swarm over people, feed and replenish their numbers, then it would make sense that this one is also hard to kill (and that's even assuming that 'something-something-swarms-of-bugs' is their mutant power, since I've read online that it's *water control,* which doesn't fit anything I'd seen).

Still wouldn't explain how that loser with the cool Egyptian motif and plague arrows hasn't eaten a sword or blast of mutant plasma over the last dozen centuries...

[Harasar]

I love the idea of there being four horsemen, and the originals being kids of Apocalypse and Genesis, but I don't love the idea that *all four of them* survived a couple thousand years of war, first against endless hordes of Amenthi demons, later, after Genesis surrendered and became Annihilation, all the (millions?) of mutants who *didn't* surrender and the demons (led by her now) ended up oppressing and opposing for many centuries. I already don't like that all four just happened to inherit the 'rents immortality, since that seems pretty improbable by itself, but not a single one of them, most with *no defensive power at all* survived those endless centuries of conflict?

(That said, Genesis is supposed to be an Omega at life-manipulation, which she's always used on panel to make vines sprout up and attack people, but might be as good at healing and even resurrection as Elixir, who is also an Omega life-manipulator, with ~2000 years less experience at developing that power... So it's entirely possible that the demons, or later the mutants she was oppressing on behalf of the demons, managed to maim or kill some of her children several times over the centuries!)

It's also possible that the Horsemen might have some defensive utility to their powers we haven't seen. Death, for instance, might not just kill people, but might drain their life-force into himself, like Selene, making him tougher (and harder to kill!) the more he kills. The more people fall before him, the harder he is to put down! But we really haven't seen any of that. If Pestilence can dissolve into a swarm of bugs, for instance, and does so when attacked, flying away in all directions to swarm over people, feed and replenish their numbers, then it would make sense that this one is also hard to kill (and that's even assuming that 'something-something-swarms-of-bugs' is their mutant power, since I've read online that it's *water control,* which doesn't fit anything I'd seen).

Still wouldn't explain how that loser with the cool Egyptian motif and plague arrows hasn't eaten a sword or blast of mutant plasma over the last dozen centuries...

It seems like everyone on Arrako is long-lived/immortal, not just Genesis' family. Ironfire and Khora lived for 900 years of SoS with no problem. Anyway, I agree what the four have lame powers. Especially given how Apocalypse described them as his best horseman ever, but they are kind of weaklings.

[Sutekh]

It seems like everyone on Arrako is long-lived/immortal, not just Genesis' family. Ironfire and Khora lived for 900 years of SoS with no problem. Anyway, I agree what the four have lame powers. Especially given how Apocalypse described them as his best horseman ever, but they are kind of weaklings.

Yeah, I wonder how much that is that we've gotten to see so little of them. Even Genesis herself is supposed to be an Omega, and all we've seen from her is vines. Whoopty-crapity-doo. Nature Girl can beat that, she can not only do vines, she can control animals, too! Hence my speculation on what sorts of things Genesis, Death and Pestilence might be capable of that are a bit more 'oomph' than what we've seen so far.

But hey, clones! It's boggling to me how a mutant can start out with a fairly low level power, like Jean's telekinetic ability to lift about as much as she could lift with her arms, but a clone made of her, with zero training, is all super-telekinetic. Ditto Emma's telepathy. She used to have to use gadgets (back when she was also a scientist!) to do uncommon 'advanced' telepath stunts like switch minds with Ororo, but now it seems like the Cuckoos have global range telepathy, despite Emma spending *years* barely able to read people much outside of the room she was in, and had to use stunts like distracting them with exotic dancers to plunder the minds of people *with no telepathic defenses or training*.

Clones just seem to jump the queue and start out as good and trained and advanced and enhanced as the person they were cloned from *became over decades.*

One notable exception, En Sabah Nur, only seemed to have Apocalypse's base mutant power of a tough mutable body, and not all the Celestial-tinkering enhancements he's given himself over the centuries (basically Eternal-lite powers), which is cool, since I like it when a mutant leans on their actual mutant power and not all the add-ons that have shown up later (like Wanda and her chaos/magic reality manipulation crap, or Rogue leaning so much on Carol Danvers powers for years, instead of learning to control her own, or Magik's demon-sorceress-soulsword stuff, while her actual mutant power basically becomes 'team bus', instead of being developed in fun ways like other teleporters like Blink).

[Ambaryerno]

Yeah, I wonder how much that is that we've gotten to see so little of them. Even Genesis herself is supposed to be an Omega, and all we've seen from her is vines. Whoopty-crapity-doo. Nature Girl can beat that, she can not only do vines, she can control animals, too! Hence my speculation on what sorts of things Genesis, Death and Pestilence might be capable of that are a bit more 'oomph' than what we've seen so far.

But hey, clones! It's boggling to me how a mutant can start out with a fairly low level power, like Jean's telekinetic ability to lift about as much as she could lift with her arms, but a clone made of her, with zero training, is all super-telekinetic. Ditto Emma's telepathy. She used to have to use gadgets (back when she was also a scientist!) to do uncommon 'advanced' telepath stunts like switch minds with Ororo, but now it seems like the Cuckoos have global range telepathy, despite Emma spending *years* barely able to read people much outside of the room she was in, and had to use stunts like distracting them with exotic dancers to plunder the minds of people *with no telepathic defenses or training*.

Clones just seem to jump the queue and start out as good and trained and advanced and enhanced as the person they were cloned from *became over decades.*

One notable exception, En Sabah Nur, only seemed to have Apocalypse's base mutant power of a tough mutable body, and not all the Celestial-tinkering enhancements he's given himself over the centuries (basically Eternal-lite powers).

Power Creep isn't a clone thing. Remember it used to take Logan weeks to recover from injuries; still faster than a normal human, but not even APPROACHING the practically instantaneous healing he (or other healers, including Laura) had even before he died.