April Sales Figures are out and..

[Kurus]

Yellowstone has ratings like 12-16 million viewers on an average basis. Yet it rarely if ever trends on twitter, and doesn't get a bunch of Youtube videos made about it by big creators either telling people to go watch it or how good or not good it is.

That tells you everything you need to know.

Silent majorities are real and they don't go out of their way to find the people that don't like what they're reading/enjoying.

My theory is that people are only buying to find out the answer to the big mystery, and we’ll see a drop off after 26. How big or small should depend on how bad 26 is. In the end only time can tell.

[Johnny]

If that’s true then they are a massively silent majority. People who are unhappy are always louder, but this is ridiculous.

Hey if people want to eat shit and like the taste of it, let 'em do it. It's their money. Brand name>>>>quality, that's always been the case and very rarely has the quality of the huge brands led to big sales drops, with the non-Bat wedding probably being the biggest example in more recent memory. Guess casual readers cared more about Bruce and Selina being together than they do about Marvel dumping all over Peter and MJ. It is what it is.

[Kurus]

Hey if people want to eat shit and like the taste of it, let 'em do it. It's their money. Brand name>>>>quality, that's always been the case and very rarely has the quality of the huge brands led to big sales drops, with the non-Bat wedding probably being the biggest example in more recent memory. Guess casual readers cared more about Bruce and Selina being together than they do about Marvel dumping all over Peter and MJ. It is what it is.

The fake out wedding was more what upset people I think. I know so retailers were very mad that dc spoiled it.

[Jman27]

The fake out wedding was more what upset people I think. I know so retailers were very mad that dc spoiled it.

yeah that fakeout was very lame and marvel did the same thing in x-men i think the month later. Also I cant fully buy the reason for these high ranking of these series is due to variants. Like amazing Spider-Man issue 24 variants arent even that good.

[CaptainUniverse]

yeah that fakeout was very lame and marvel did the same thing in x-men i think the month later

Isn't that the one where Kitty and Colossus were supposed to get married but Rogue and Gambit ended up taking their place?

[TinkerSpider]

These charts are meaningless as hard data.

Cutting and pasting from my post in another thread:

The sample size is a problem, it's 125 stores out of a possible 3000+. The sample being self-selected and non-random is absolutely a problem when it comes to using this as data.

Not reporting numbers and just rankings, also a problem. Rankings only tell you how one book sells in relation to another. ASM could be #1 and sell 60000 copies while the #2 book sells 59999 copies and #3 sells 59998 copies, etc. In that case, being #1 isn't exactly a stunning achievement, it just means all books are selling between 55K and 60K. Without having numbers to put the rankings into context, the rankings are pretty meaningless.

Nor do we have month to month or year to year sales data. Sure, ASM could be the #1 book - but if it was #1 and sold 90K copies in Jan 2022 and #1 but sold 65K copies in Jan 2023 - that's not exactly a huge sales success. So without historical context, the charts are pretty meaningless.

And the rankings are superhero books only but we have scientific and anecedotal data that manga has been eating superhero comics' lunch since around 2018, and manga sales have only continued to climb (although I think the latest data is that they are starting to level off in North America). So again, the market context would be helpful to define "success" - because it's one thing to be #1 in a thriving market, it's quite another to be #1 in a shrinking market.

We know the ICv2 ComicsHub charts are not accurate for trade sales, because in Oct 2022, when Wells's first ASM trade collection came out, it made the top 20 on ComicsHub charts - but it failed to chart in the top 50 for Bookscan, which represents 85% of the book sales market.

So, the ICv2 ComicsHub charts are useful as anecdotal data - as in, in those 125 self-selected stores ASM sells well - but I still assert they're pretty much nonsense as scientific data.

Then there are digital sales, but that's whole 'other - and can be pretty opaque - can of worms.

Yellowstone has ratings like 12-16 million viewers on an average basis. Yet it rarely if ever trends on twitter, and doesn't get a bunch of Youtube videos made about it by big creators either telling people to go watch it or how good or not good it is.

That tells you everything you need to know.

Silent majorities are real and they don't go out of their way to find the people that don't like what they're reading/enjoying.

You’re confusing “I don’t hear about X in my circle” with “therefore it doesn’t get talked about.”

I assure you, Yellowstone gets talked about.

“All this has created a thriving fandom. YouTube videos break down the episodes and get hundreds of thousands of views. Do an internet search for “Beth Dutton fashion” and you’ll find pages of listings hawking clones of her outfits. Want your own Yellowstone T-shirt, hat, hoodie? You’re covered. As one Amazon reviewer said, when you wear the Y-branded gear, you’re greeted by fellow fans and “find your tribe.”’

[Majesty]

My theory is that people are only buying to find out the answer to the big mystery, and we’ll see a drop off after 26. How big or small should depend on how bad 26 is. In the end only time can tell.

Everyone keeps saying stuff like this for months and months that sales are gonna drop and those months and months go by and it remains Number 1 in each one.

Meanwhile other comics that the numbers say are falling, continue to fall and wind up getting their runs canceled or ended early.

However when the numbers say that the comic they dislike is Number 1, it's false or hiding something. But when the numbers say a comic is faltering and then soon after we hear about that run getting cut short, then it's accurate.

[TinkerSpider]

Everyone keeps saying stuff like this for months and months that sales are gonna drop and those months and months go by and it remains Number 1 in each one.

Meanwhile other comics that the numbers say are falling, continue to fall and wind up getting their runs canceled or ended early.

However when the numbers say that the comic they dislike is Number 1, it's false or hiding something. But when the numbers say a comic is faltering and then soon after we hear about that run getting cut short, then it's accurate.

The point is we don’t have numbers.

Those charts are rankings only.

So yes, the numbers can say whatever you want them to say because there are no actual numbers available to the public.

[Kurus]

Everyone keeps saying stuff like this for months and months that sales are gonna drop and those months and months go by and it remains Number 1 in each one.

Meanwhile other comics that the numbers say are falling, continue to fall and wind up getting their runs canceled or ended early.

However when the numbers say that the comic they dislike is Number 1, it's false or hiding something. But when the numbers say a comic is faltering and then soon after we hear about that run getting cut short, then it's accurate.

I could very well be wrong. All I’m doing I’m is baselessly speculating, which I find fun for some reason. The thing is I find it hard to see what anyone could enjoy in these comics. Even putting aside the massive characterization issues, and my emotional investment in these characters, this story strikes me as really boring and unimaginative.

[Majesty]

I could very well be wrong. All I’m doing I’m is baselessly speculating, which I find fun for some reason. The thing is I find it hard to see what anyone could enjoy in these comics. Even putting aside the massive characterization issues, and my emotional investment in these characters, this story strikes me as really boring and unimaginative.

Well baseless speculation is the the most fun thing about comic books

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

These charts are meaningless as hard data.

Cutting and pasting from my post in another thread:

The sample size is a problem, it's 125 stores out of a possible 3000+. The sample being self-selected and non-random is absolutely a problem when it comes to using this as data.

Not reporting numbers and just rankings, also a problem. Rankings only tell you how one book sells in relation to another. ASM could be #1 and sell 60000 copies while the #2 book sells 59999 copies and #3 sells 59998 copies, etc. In that case, being #1 isn't exactly a stunning achievement, it just means all books are selling between 55K and 60K. Without having numbers to put the rankings into context, the rankings are pretty meaningless.

Nor do we have month to month or year to year sales data. Sure, ASM could be the #1 book - but if it was #1 and sold 90K copies in Jan 2022 and #1 but sold 65K copies in Jan 2023 - that's not exactly a huge sales success. So without historical context, the charts are pretty meaningless.

And the rankings are superhero books only but we have scientific and anecedotal data that manga has been eating superhero comics' lunch since around 2018, and manga sales have only continued to climb (although I think the latest data is that they are starting to level off in North America). So again, the market context would be helpful to define "success" - because it's one thing to be #1 in a thriving market, it's quite another to be #1 in a shrinking market.

We know the ICv2 ComicsHub charts are not accurate for trade sales, because in Oct 2022, when Wells's first ASM trade collection came out, it made the top 20 on ComicsHub charts - but it failed to chart in the top 50 for Bookscan, which represents 85% of the book sales market.

So, the ICv2 ComicsHub charts are useful as anecdotal data - as in, in those 125 self-selected stores ASM sells well - but I still assert they're pretty much nonsense as scientific data.

Then there are digital sales, but that's whole 'other - and can be pretty opaque - can of worms.



You’re confusing “I don’t hear about X in my circle” with “therefore it doesn’t get talked about.”

I assure you, Yellowstone gets talked about.

“All this has created a thriving fandom. YouTube videos break down the episodes and get hundreds of thousands of views. Do an internet search for “Beth Dutton fashion” and you’ll find pages of listings hawking clones of her outfits. Want your own Yellowstone T-shirt, hat, hoodie? You’re covered. As one Amazon reviewer said, when you wear the Y-branded gear, you’re greeted by fellow fans and “find your tribe.”’

I think you bring up a lot of great points but I still wouldn't call the data entirely meaningless. It's still a sample size of how ASM is selling throughout a collection of stores and unfortunately its the biggest sample size we have to work off. I think it's hard not to take a fair look at ASM toping these charts month after month and deny that it's likely still selling reasonably well.

I absolutely hate how this run is going and I'm actually kind of surprised there hasn't been a drop but the window into sales that we have shows despite online backlash it's still selling better than anything else right now and unfortunately that's all Marvel cares about.

[Coop]

Same story as every industry, money talks and bullshit walks. If you are buying the book, you are saying "Yes please may I have another". And if you're digging it more power to you. But if you don't like this and you are paying money for it, it's not gonna change.

I wasn't enjoying the book towards the tail of of Beyond so I stopped picking up a copy.

Whatever theories anyone has, this is probably something that makes Lowe and Wells jobs more secure and easier to do whatever they want. This shows a trend of stores deciding it's smart business to stock this run. Which is a W for Wells and Lowe no matter how you slice it.

[ARkadelphia]

Speculators are a cancer on this industry imo.

Without speculators, there may not even be an industry

[ARkadelphia]

Isn't that the one where Kitty and Colossus were supposed to get married but Rogue and Gambit ended up taking their place?

Yessireebob

[ARkadelphia]

The point is we don’t have numbers.

Those charts are rankings only.

So yes, the numbers can say whatever you want them to say because there are no actual numbers available to the public.

I’d agree with you if the ranking of the book was, say, 50. During the 1990s bubble, money was being made there but not always the case in all eras. But in this case we’re talking about top 5 rankings. If that is not considered wildly successful, then the industry is on the verge of collapsing RIGHT NOW.

Your other points on sampling are valid though. It’s not the 125 out of 3,000 that is of concern since that’s 4% sample size. For comparison. Presidential polls, for example, are significantly lower than that. The issue is, as you note, the self-selecting and no -random aspects of the surveying.