April Sales Figures are out and..

[duke togo]

I'm dropping the book with #26. If you don't like the outcome then please drop the book and stop hate reading. Only way Marvel will ever learn is through its pockets.

[ZuLuLu]

Again this isn't sales data this is numbers ordered by the shops and ASM being propped up by variant and ratio variant

There are a lot of problems that I have with IvC2 ranking systems, but it does track actual sales and not shop orders, it states this at the top of their article;

These are unit and dollar sales rankings based on sales tracked at point-of-sale by the ComicHub system at stores selling American comics around the world.

[fjmac]

Guys, Amazing Spider-Man will always be a top seller, and much of the time THE top seller. And yes, it's very likely that this run is doing specially well. But.

1. The IvC2 rankings are worth shite. It should go without saying. It's 125 stores.
2. Publishers stopped relying on actual copies bought by actual readers long ago. Hence the variants, retailer incentives, retailer exclusives plus a plethora of other retailer benefits we probably don't know about. This translates into larger store orders, bigger promotion and bigger sales. It keeps the industry alive and we should all be fine with it even if it means that Zeb fucking Wells gets to brag about being the top selling writer.

Considering that, the only way to make a dent on the dollar income of a book is if half the readers drop the book, or if collectors/completists/speculators loose interest. A sales drop did kill the clone saga, but at that time there were sources of actually reliable sales figures, and the market for gimmicks and speculators had been exhausted, so sales were actually driven by readers.

The only tool we have is noise. Respectful noise, not harassment or threats. But as much noise as possible.

[Airtrap]

Everybody should also remember that comics in the year 2023 are as much (if not more so) a collectors market as a readers market.

Every month thousands of people will buy Spider-Man and Batman just to bag and board them and put them in a longbox, often they stopped reading them years ago. They just like having a complete collection. Same for people who just want a specific variant and frame it. Those guys are probably happier than the readers, honestly.

Also realistically if publishers relied on readers, they would have closed shop decades ago.

Really the only real interesting sales charts are trade paperback numbers but no modern big two comics are chart their meaningfully nowadays. The only comics that do that are 30+ years old Alan Moore and Frank Miller books

[Spidey5640]

Like I've been saying. The people that have been complaining on the internet aren't the majority and aren't treated as such.

So true. Slott points this out on his posts. It is far more common to post about something you dislike than to comment on something you like. I have to admit that over the years the majority of time I actually made the effort to contact Marvel directly about a comic, be it email or paper (yes I'm that old) it was because I disagreed with the direction.

[Mister Mets]

I thought it was interesting that we haven't had sales discussions for a while.

[Kurus]

Everybody should also remember that comics in the year 2023 are as much (if not more so) a collectors market as a readers market.

Every month thousands of people will buy Spider-Man and Batman just to bag and board them and put them in a longbox, often they stopped reading them years ago. They just like having a complete collection. Same for people who just want a specific variant and frame it. Those guys are probably happier than the readers, honestly.

Also realistically if publishers relied on readers, they would have closed shop decades ago.

Really the only real interesting sales charts are trade paperback numbers but no modern big two comics are chart their meaningfully nowadays. The only comics that do that are 30+ years old Alan Moore and Frank Miller books

I really don’t understand that. To me the whole point of getting a comic is to read it. Just getting a comic to store it without reading seems like such a massive waste to me.

[Vordan]

Laughing at those numbers. If you’re one of those guys who is buying ASM every month just to turn around and seethe about Wells I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re playing yourself. Stop buying the Spider-Man books or shut up.



Pic related is pretty much the Spidey fanbase it would seem. Enjoy 100 issues of Wells because that’s what you guys are getting. I dropped the books and I don’t care what they do with 616 Spidey anymore, I can get my fix elsewhere.

[Jman27]

Laughing at those numbers. If you’re one of those guys who is buying ASM every month just to turn around and seethe about Wells I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re playing yourself. Stop buying the Spider-Man books or shut up.



Pic related is pretty much the Spidey fanbase it would seem. Enjoy 100 issues of Wells because that’s what you guys are getting. I dropped the books and I don’t care what they do with 616 Spidey anymore, I can get my fix elsewhere.

people dont have buy it to be apart of the discussion

[TinkerSpider]

IÂ’d agree with you if the ranking of the book was, say, 50. During the 1990s bubble, money was being made there but not always the case in all eras. But in this case we’re talking about top 5 rankings. If that is not considered wildly successful, then the industry is on the verge of collapsing RIGHT NOW.

Your other points on sampling are valid though. It’s not the 125 out of 3,000 that is of concern since thatÂ’s 4% sample size. For comparison. Presidential polls, for example, are significantly lower than that. The issue is, as you note, the self-selecting and no -random aspects of the surveying.

But what does #1 mean? 100K sales? 75K sales? 60K sales? 45K sales? Is #1 this month higher in sales or lower in sales than #1 last month? They include a key, but how accurate is it and when did they last adjust the key?

Until the ranking is tied to a sales number, all it tells you is that ASM sold better than Moon Knight in a small, non-random and self-selected sample. (It also doesn’t tell us how many of the stores in the sample share an owner/are part of a chain - because if stores could share a buyer, then the sample size is actually even smaller than it looks, with outsized bias not captured from the chain stores because the buyer/owner may have favorite titles that they know their stores will be able to hand sell at the register. Etc.)

So sure, as anecdotal data only, it has value.

About the industry…

Manga is outselling superhero titles by a large margin - I don’t have the numbers in front of me but last I looked, IIRC, manga was 70% of the overall comic book/graphic novel market. Comic book stores were attributing manga for keeping their lights on during the pandemic, not monthly floppies. Meanwhile, both DC and Marvel are owned by media companies that primarily view their comic book companies as investments in intellectual property, not strictly as publishing businesses.

While neither Warner Discovery nor Disney will put up with business units that don’t earn their keep and return profits, we don’t know what targets are set to be considered successful by WBD and Disney - especially when, again, the IP is faaaaaaaar more valuable to them as TV and film franchises than paper comics. Which is to say sales matter to them as the unit needs to make a profit, but also that sales might not be the end all and be all like they were for, say, IDC (and even then, it’s the loss of their TV license money that appears to have been the big nail in their coffin).

Which is why I find sales talk to be a bit bemusing. Marvel is never going to stop publishing ASM in some form or another, if only to keep their trademark current while creating new IP to be exploited. What might change is if Marvel, probably not any time soon, moves to more of a graphic novel, B&W format to go after the manga audience; or decides to prioritize digital as paper and distribution costs continue to rise, etc. (but digital has its own problems, namely that digital comics are very easy to copy and share without degradation and also - outside of NFTs - do not hold the collectible value of print copies).

But Marvel does watch sales internally and they have their own internal targets to hit, so not buying a comic you’re not enjoying is still very good advice.

[Vordan]

people dont have buy it to be apart of the discussion

I never said otherwise. My comment was specifically aimed at people who hate the current run but keep buying it.

[Dan Slott]

Every time someone says "Spider-Man always sells" I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

No. It doesn't.

Yes, there will always be a market for the Legacy Flagship Books. They are pretty hard to cancel.
But they do NOT always sell. And they definitely are not guaranteed to be the #1 seller of the month.
For many years AVENGERS was the top selling book. There have been times when it's the X-MEN, or GHOST RIDER, or HULK, or CAPTAIN AMERICA, or the ULTIMATES, or STAR WARS.

Being the creative team on a Legacy Flagship Book doesn't mean you can't tank the book and bring the sales down.

Whatever Zeb and his team are doing, it's working sales-wise. It doesn't matter how noisy any one corner of the internet is. It doesn't matter what any one specific poster feels about the quality of the book. There's a market for it. And a market that it keeping it high on the charts. So good for Zeb, John, Ed, Edgar-- EVERYBODY working on ASM.

[TinkerSpider]

Here’s a great example of why relying on anecdotal data is misleading and can give inaccurate impressions of the market:

https://www.comixexperience.com/news...t-sellers-2022

The above is the 2022 annual sales report from Comix Experience’s Brian Hibbs, a very well respected comic book shop owner with decades of retail experience in the market.

Only one ASM issue made his top 100 issues sold for 2022. He says, “I also was surprised that the facsimile reprint of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #1 sold within 10% of the newest 2022 series of the same name and number. (You’ll also notice that ASM #2 doesn’t even make the top 100, *sigh*, so what was the point of starting it over, then?)”

Obviously, this is just one store’s experience (no pun intended).

But if the ICv2 charts were mostly comprised of stores similar to Comix Experience: the charts would look very different.

And this is why anecdotal data is unreliable as a barometer of the overall market.

[Mister Mets]

Every time someone says "Spider-Man always sells" I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

No. It doesn't.

Yes, there will always be a market for the Legacy Flagship Books. They are pretty hard to cancel.
But they do NOT always sell. And they definitely are not guaranteed to be the #1 seller of the month.
For many years AVENGERS was the top selling book. There have been times when it's the X-MEN, or GHOST RIDER, or HULK, or CAPTAIN AMERICA, or the ULTIMATES, or STAR WARS.

Being the creative team on a Legacy Flagship Book doesn't mean you can't tank the book and bring the sales down.

Whatever Zeb and his team are doing, it's working sales-wise. It doesn't matter how noisy any one corner of the internet is. It doesn't matter what any one specific poster feels about the quality of the book. There's a market for it. And a market that it keeping it high on the charts. So good for Zeb, John, Ed, Edgar-- EVERYBODY working on ASM.

A big mistake people make in sales discussions is to look at what's selling now and work backwards. The suggestion would then be that Spider-Man should be compared to books that gained readers, but this is often hindsight bias.

It's worth looking at the past, and seeing what isn't selling as well.

In May 2002, the top ten included Transformers, New X-Men, The Ultimates, Amazing Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Spider-Man: Blue, an Ultimate Spider-Man special and GI Joe. The highest-selling DC book was Green Arrow in 12th place.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2/2002-05.html

The Ultimate line is coming back soon, but it hasn't been a presence in sales charts in a few years. GI Joe and Transformers are also not that major.

In May 2003, the top ten was Wolverine #1, Batman, Ultimates, two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, New X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Uncanny X-Men and Venom #1.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...3/2003-05.html

In May 2004, the top four was Astonishing X-Men #1, Superman (Jim Lee's second issue), Superman/ Batman and Secret War before we get to the Spider-Man and X-Men books (#5-#12.)

Fifteen years ago in May 2008, the top ten was Secret Invasion, Final Crisis, New Avengers, Avengers Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Sized Astonishing X-Men (the finale to the Whedon/ Cassady run), and then two issues of Batman and Mighty Avengers.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...8/2008-05.html

Event books and the Avengers were bigger. Morrison's Batman also connected with the readers. The Batman and Avengers titles also connected to the big event book. Amazing Spider-Man was in 20th place.

Ten years ago in May 2013, the top ten were X-Men #1, Batman, Justice League, two issues of Age of Ultron, two issues of Superior Spider-Man, Justice League of America, All New X-Men and Detective Comics.

There are certainly no guarantees on sales, although if something is selling well (especially after nearly a year), the creative team is doing something right.

[TinkerSpider]

A big mistake people make in sales discussions is to look at what's selling now and work backwards. The suggestion would then be that Spider-Man should be compared to books that gained readers, but this is often hindsight bias.

It's worth looking at the past, and seeing what isn't selling as well.

In May 2002, the top ten included Transformers, New X-Men, The Ultimates, Amazing Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Spider-Man: Blue, an Ultimate Spider-Man special and GI Joe. The highest-selling DC book was Green Arrow in 12th place.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2/2002-05.html

The Ultimate line is coming back soon, but it hasn't been a presence in sales charts in a few years. GI Joe and Transformers are also not that major.

In May 2003, the top ten was Wolverine #1, Batman, Ultimates, two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, New X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Uncanny X-Men and Venom #1.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...3/2003-05.html

In May 2004, the top four was Astonishing X-Men #1, Superman (Jim Lee's second issue), Superman/ Batman and Secret War before we get to the Spider-Man and X-Men books (#5-#12.)

Fifteen years ago in May 2008, the top ten was Secret Invasion, Final Crisis, New Avengers, Avengers Invaders #1, Invincible Iron Man #1, Giant-Sized Astonishing X-Men (the finale to the Whedon/ Cassady run), and then two issues of Batman and Mighty Avengers.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...8/2008-05.html

Event books and the Avengers were bigger. Morrison's Batman also connected with the readers. The Batman and Avengers titles also connected to the big event book. Amazing Spider-Man was in 20th place.

Ten years ago in May 2013, the top ten were X-Men #1, Batman, Justice League, two issues of Age of Ultron, two issues of Superior Spider-Man, Justice League of America, All New X-Men and Detective Comics.

There are certainly no guarantees on sales, although if something is selling well (especially after nearly a year), the creative team is doing something right.

Another problem, as you noted, is that events - and arcs, #1s, artists and writers can also skew monthly numbers. And one month out of a year does not necessarily indicate even that year’s sales; if you had picked November 2008, as an example, ASM 577 was the #6 book.

But the problem with ICv2’s charts is the fact the store sample is skewed.