I know what you mean. It could very well have some of this in it for sure.
I was looking at it like we will see many past events and Jean scanning them for the what sent things off the rails in the wrong direction. Some may get more time/attention than others, or perhaps not and each will get the same time/panels.
It will be fun to see what we get!
[Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]
"Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."
Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!
In case you're interested in reading this story, it's X-Men: Winter's End #1 (2019). Also, I enjoyed our discussions around this scene, too, and feel both of our stances are valid.
You bring up an important nuance of Bobby's story I had not thought of. I suppose he could feel a number of ways about it, simultaneously: (1) Relief and pride at having come to accept himself and be known for who he is, and (2) Pain and anger at not having been able to do and live as his younger, time-displaced self did.
You're sweet, Micabe, and I'm sorry for coming off overly stern. And I apologize to you, too, emfrst. I just think we need to stop the bickering, contrived ignorance, and slighting of all characters. We each have characters we hold dear to our hearts, characters we feel represent us in some way and to whom we feel a kinship. And as much as we may feign ignorance to slight other fans, we know it feels like a personal affront whenever someone else demeans and degrades said characters. So, please, let's stop.
Last edited by Gaelforce; 05-22-2023 at 07:23 PM.
Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
"Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."
I would definitely welcome this. It is an important part of her history and would add layers to her relationship with Christopher Nathan.
This got me thinking about how this series will be broken down plotwise... I'll post more thoughts later.
Frankly, I hope this miniseries echos and cements Claremont, Pak, Gillen, and a number of other writers' sentiments that Jean and Phoenix are and always have been one. However, if it doesn't, as long as it treats Jean and her history with care and respect, I will be very pleased.
I'm also wondering if Simonson has been tasked with revealing why Sinister has been unable to properly, or exactly, clone Jean.
I completely agree. Mind you, it's not that I need her to be a "cosmic, primal force" per se. After all, she's already proven she can transcend her body, live as "an entity of pure thought," and resurrect herself without manifesting Phoenix. However, I feel misogyny, be it conscious or unconscious, and a flagrant disregard for the physical and psychological abuses she endured at the hands of Mastermind and the Hellfire Club led to the powers that be stripping something from her that was created for her; something that was meant to symbolize her potential as revealed as far back as the late-1960s. And I feel it was an unintentional insult to her and abuse and trauma survivors everywhere.
However, one of the highlights of Bendis et al.'s work with her was that they made me no longer care about whether she manifested Phoenix again or not. The ingenious ways they had Jean use her powers during her time displacement, including her psionic-energy absorption ability, which, according to White, she is still capable of, thrilled me. That said, Duggan has done remarkable work with her in terms of showcasing her abilities. I mean, in X-Men #22 alone, he had her "waking all the souls [Nightmare] preyed on and letting them know that their nightmare is on the menu," after which they overwhelmed him, a cosmic force himself. That's huge.
I agree with you. Then again, there are so many moments scattered throughout Jean's history that warrant focus and further exploration. It's mind-boggling, really.
I've always loved that look. It'll be interesting to see if Simonson explores alternate timelines, too.
I'm both anxious and utterly exhilarated to read this mini.
Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
"Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."
Not shown as a separate entity or not shown like the Uni-Power that's passed around like a blunt at a drunken frat party? Personally, I feel the Phoenix Force should have remained bonded to Jean Grey and her descendants until her progeny were lost to time or thru lack of procreation. That said, Jean Grey doesn't necessarily have to manifest the Phoenix Force every other story arc but, knowing that it's a part of Jean Grey's plethora of telepathic/telekinetic options I do. I mean it is not like she has to go up against beings like Galactus or the Celestials (they get clobbered on occasion too) on a regular. But, moderation is a good thing. Now, if against Nimrod units or insane beings like Vulcan or Black Bolt sure I could imagine a brief flareup here and there under unique circumstances. But, why strip her of her claim to fame (so to speak) simply because of the tragedy that befell the D'Bari Star System, a tragedy that she clearly wasn't solely responsible for? In my humble opinion, Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force can remain symbiotic without having to resort to her pulling a Raptor out of her bra every time something big threatens humanity as a whole, that's why she's written within a team setting much like Ororo who apparently can transpose entire solar systems and, you don't see her pulling stunts like that on a regular either.
Last edited by Micabe; 05-22-2023 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Link(s) added.
Oookay.
I've done some serious pruning and editing on this thread. Let me make a few things plain.
1. Posters do not determine who is and who is not violating rules. The rules are posted. If you think someone is breaking the rules, report them. Don't chide them in public.
2. Stop with the nasty, snide personal and condescending comments directed at other posters. This is the only warning on this I'm giving.
3. Last and certainly not least - NEVER claim/speculate/troll that an LGBTQ+ character was forced into their gender preference. Unless a writer actually does something like this, it's NOT an accusation anyone on these forums should be making.
Now...back to Jean and her mini-series.
I keep trying to imagine what "The X-Men’s Future Lies in the Ashes of Jean Grey’s Past" is supposed to mean in reference to her upcoming four-part mini and all I can come up with is this...
You just reminded me of that time Jean shielded Scott from one of Black “planet-splitting” Bolt’s blasts, and left him feeling. And she did this whilst missing the “portion of her psyche” that animated Madelyne and likely contained her telepathy. ☝🏻😌
Years later, she shielded Rachel from one of his punches, before letting him have it with pure empathy and vulnerability.
Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
"Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."
😭
Goodnight! 🙏🏻❤️
Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
"Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."
Mein gott, that panel will never not be funny!
It depends on the writer.
Last edited by Force de Phenix; 05-22-2023 at 09:50 PM.
I cannot think of a host that the Phoenix Force had that was as powerful on their own as mutant atom bomb Jean Grey and her current power level. I would be excited to see how their power dynamic would change now that Jean really does not need the Phoenix Force anymore to be a cosmic-level threat.