'Jean Grey' by Louise Simonson & Bernard Chang

[Havok83]

if Jean will get the Phoenix back im into it.

If the Avengers can have nuclear bombs like Thor Wanda or Captain Marvel why not the xmen?

Also The Dominion problem need a Phoenix gun.

Jean is already a nuclear bomb without the Phoenix

[Havok83]

Since Louise Simonson was the first to write Jean in the role of baby Chris' (later Nathan) adoptive mother, would you guys like if one of the flashbacks were about the time she spent raising Nathan in the future? Or perhaps even an interaction with adult Nathan?

On a related note I hope we see a flashback which contains her X-Factor Forever look, thus making the costume at least canon for her and eligible to be used again

[Micabe]

if Jean will get the Phoenix back im into it.

If the Avengers can have nuclear bombs like Thor Wanda or Captain Marvel why not the xmen?

Also The Dominion problem need a Phoenix gun.

The X-Men still has Ororo, kinda...

[Phoenixx9]

If whatever is going on in the present makes her review her past, such a flashback *could* fit in the story. She spent after all 12 years raising that child. It's a significant portion of her life both on the number of years and the responsibilities involved with parenthood (particularly in that society and under those circumstances).

Granted, depending on the tone of the narrative, it might not work at all. In my view that would be a shame, though, since Simonson seems to be one of the few writers who was interested in this aspect of the character.

Without getting into the whole discussion if super heroes should have kids, since this mini is (mostly) set in the past, maybe it wouldn't be too annoying/distracting to the readers who are against it.

I know what you mean. It could very well have some of this in it for sure.

I was looking at it like we will see many past events and Jean scanning them for the what sent things off the rails in the wrong direction. Some may get more time/attention than others, or perhaps not and each will get the same time/panels.

It will be fun to see what we get!

[Mercury]

Thanks for posting these panels Mercury! I'm assuming this is in one of the Iceman solos which were admittedly during a time when I fell off the books. It's a nice resolution to what was a divisive coming out story. I've quite enjoyed our previous discussions around it, even though we have different opinions about it.

In case you're interested in reading this story, it's X-Men: Winter's End #1 (2019). Also, I enjoyed our discussions around this scene, too, and feel both of our stances are valid.

Sidenote: I never thought about how awful it must have been for him to get his younger self's memories and realize he DID come out of the closet as a teen, but then had little choice when it came to going back into the closet. Knowing he actually did have the capacity to live as his authentic self at that age must make reflecting on all the interim years really hard.

You bring up an important nuance of Bobby's story I had not thought of. I suppose he could feel a number of ways about it, simultaneously: (1) Relief and pride at having come to accept himself and be known for who he is, and (2) Pain and anger at not having been able to do and live as his younger, time-displaced self did.

I apologize... I'll quit post haste before I'm kicked to the curb

You're sweet, Micabe, and I'm sorry for coming off overly stern. And I apologize to you, too, emfrst. I just think we need to stop the bickering, contrived ignorance, and slighting of all characters. We each have characters we hold dear to our hearts, characters we feel represent us in some way and to whom we feel a kinship. And as much as we may feign ignorance to slight other fans, we know it feels like a personal affront whenever someone else demeans and degrades said characters. So, please, let's stop.

[Mercury]

Since Louise Simonson was the first to write Jean in the role of baby Chris' (later Nathan) adoptive mother, would you guys like if one of the flashbacks were about the time she spent raising Nathan in the future? Or perhaps even an interaction with adult Nathan?

I would definitely welcome this. It is an important part of her history and would add layers to her relationship with Christopher Nathan.

Hmmn, thinking about this, it could turn out like this:

Issue #1: Sets up the problem, Jean is with the X-Men and then leaves them to think about how to solve it.

Issue #2: The entire issue is flashbacks as Jean tries to solve the mystery....

Issue #3: The flashbacks end as Jean finds the key to solving the problem....

Issue #4: Jean sets out to fix things....

If it is anything like the above, then I am sure we can see some of Baby Nathan. If the flashbacks are much more condensed and not covered over 1.5 issues, then we may not get to see him, but it would not be necessary in that scenario, as Jean needs to solve they mystery since she is the key to resolving things.

In any event, I am excited to see what we get!

This got me thinking about how this series will be broken down plotwise... I'll post more thoughts later.

Every Phoenix scenario for Jean has been done before so should the cosmic chicken not be shown? Just saying

Frankly, I hope this miniseries echos and cements Claremont, Pak, Gillen, and a number of other writers' sentiments that Jean and Phoenix are and always have been one. However, if it doesn't, as long as it treats Jean and her history with care and respect, I will be very pleased.

I'm also wondering if Simonson has been tasked with revealing why Sinister has been unable to properly, or exactly, clone Jean.

if Jean will get the Phoenix back im into it.

I completely agree. Mind you, it's not that I need her to be a "cosmic, primal force" per se. After all, she's already proven she can transcend her body, live as "an entity of pure thought," and resurrect herself without manifesting Phoenix. However, I feel misogyny, be it conscious or unconscious, and a flagrant disregard for the physical and psychological abuses she endured at the hands of Mastermind and the Hellfire Club led to the powers that be stripping something from her that was created for her; something that was meant to symbolize her potential as revealed as far back as the late-1960s. And I feel it was an unintentional insult to her and abuse and trauma survivors everywhere.



However, one of the highlights of Bendis et al.'s work with her was that they made me no longer care about whether she manifested Phoenix again or not. The ingenious ways they had Jean use her powers during her time displacement, including her psionic-energy absorption ability, which, according to White, she is still capable of, thrilled me. That said, Duggan has done remarkable work with her in terms of showcasing her abilities. I mean, in X-Men #22 alone, he had her "waking all the souls [Nightmare] preyed on and letting them know that their nightmare is on the menu," after which they overwhelmed him, a cosmic force himself. That's huge.

If whatever is going on in the present makes her review her past, such a flashback *could* fit in the story. She spent after all 12 years raising that child. It's a significant portion of her life both on the number of years and the responsibilities involved with parenthood (particularly in that society and under those circumstances).

Granted, depending on the tone of the narrative, it might not work at all. In my view that would be a shame, though, since Simonson seems to be one of the few writers who was interested in this aspect of the character.

Without getting into the whole discussion if super heroes should have kids, since this mini is (mostly) set in the past, maybe it wouldn't be too annoying/distracting to the readers who are against it.

I agree with you. Then again, there are so many moments scattered throughout Jean's history that warrant focus and further exploration. It's mind-boggling, really.

On a related note I hope we see a flashback which contains her X-Factor Forever look, thus making the costume at least canon for her and eligible to be used again

I've always loved that look. It'll be interesting to see if Simonson explores alternate timelines, too.

I'm both anxious and utterly exhilarated to read this mini.

[Micabe]

Every Phoenix scenario for Jean has been done before so should the cosmic chicken not be shown? Just saying

Not shown as a separate entity or not shown like the Uni-Power that's passed around like a blunt at a drunken frat party? Personally, I feel the Phoenix Force should have remained bonded to Jean Grey and her descendants until her progeny were lost to time or thru lack of procreation. That said, Jean Grey doesn't necessarily have to manifest the Phoenix Force every other story arc but, knowing that it's a part of Jean Grey's plethora of telepathic/telekinetic options I do. I mean it is not like she has to go up against beings like Galactus or the Celestials (they get clobbered on occasion too) on a regular. But, moderation is a good thing. Now, if against Nimrod units or insane beings like Vulcan or Black Bolt sure I could imagine a brief flareup here and there under unique circumstances. But, why strip her of her claim to fame (so to speak) simply because of the tragedy that befell the D'Bari Star System, a tragedy that she clearly wasn't solely responsible for? In my humble opinion, Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force can remain symbiotic without having to resort to her pulling a Raptor out of her bra every time something big threatens humanity as a whole, that's why she's written within a team setting much like Ororo who apparently can transpose entire solar systems and, you don't see her pulling stunts like that on a regular either.

[Gaelforce]

Oookay.

I've done some serious pruning and editing on this thread. Let me make a few things plain.

1. Posters do not determine who is and who is not violating rules. The rules are posted. If you think someone is breaking the rules, report them. Don't chide them in public.
2. Stop with the nasty, snide personal and condescending comments directed at other posters. This is the only warning on this I'm giving.
3. Last and certainly not least - NEVER claim/speculate/troll that an LGBTQ+ character was forced into their gender preference. Unless a writer actually does something like this, it's NOT an accusation anyone on these forums should be making.

Now...back to Jean and her mini-series.

[Micabe]

I keep trying to imagine what "The X-Men’s Future Lies in the Ashes of Jean Grey’s Past" is supposed to mean in reference to her upcoming four-part mini and all I can come up with is this...

Uncanny X-Men #137

[Mercury]

But, moderation is a good thing. Now, if against Nimrod units or insane beings like Vulcan or Black Bolt sure I could imagine a brief flareup here and there under unique circumstances…

You just reminded me of that time Jean shielded Scott from one of Black “planet-splitting” Bolt’s blasts, and left him feeling. And she did this whilst missing the “portion of her psyche” that animated Madelyne and likely contained her telepathy. ☝🏻😌



Years later, she shielded Rachel from one of his punches, before letting him have it with pure empathy and vulnerability.

[Mercury]

😭



Goodnight! 🙏🏻❤️

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Mein gott, that panel will never not be funny!

[Micabe]

While thinking of the Micronauts and the Enigma Force I came across this.


Time Travelers

[Force de Phenix]

It depends on the writer.

[Exodus]

I cannot think of a host that the Phoenix Force had that was as powerful on their own as mutant atom bomb Jean Grey and her current power level. I would be excited to see how their power dynamic would change now that Jean really does not need the Phoenix Force anymore to be a cosmic-level threat.