X-Men Red #11 - Review/Spoilers

[Sutekh]

One last thing, and I'm posting this in a separate reply in the event someone is already responding to my post above: I love Ororo and Xavier. They, along with a few others, symbolize "the X-Men" for me. Consequently, their flaws, while difficult to face, only make them more relatable to me. And I hope to see them both continue to change and grow and fully embrace their highest potential.

On a side note, this era is already kicking our asses.

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I actually do kind of like how *neither of them* used their best arguments. Both got impatient, angry and / defensive and dropped into accusations or demands. That's very human, and I like that, to an extent. (Both seemed, at times, to be talking past the other one, busy making their own point, while dismissing the others points, right or wrong.)

It may not be pretty, but it's all too common when people are involved. As long as it is a step in a journey, that *eventually* leads to some kind of reconciliation or at least detente, it's all good. There's gotta be challenge and conflict, and even disagreement. Logan spent *years* pretty much at Scott's throat, undercutting him, playing the Lancer to Scott's Leader, and it took them ages to find a place of mutual respect for their very different ways of doing things. Magneto and Xavier similarly took a *long* time before they could sit at the same table.

If comics stopped being written today, and there was never any followup to this last conversation between Storm and Xavier, yes, that would be a sucky way to close things out. But I think we all know, barring a sudden meteor impact obliterating all life on the planet, the story of these characters is not over...

[Mercury]

I actually do kind of like how *neither of them* used their best arguments. Both got impatient, angry and / defensive and dropped into accusations or demands. That's very human, and I like that, to an extent. (Both seemed, at times, to be talking past the other one, busy making their own point, while dismissing the others points, right or wrong.)

It may not be pretty, but it's all too common when people are involved. As long as it is a step in a journey, that *eventually* leads to some kind of reconciliation or at least detente, it's all good. There's gotta be challenge and conflict, and even disagreement. Logan spent *years* pretty much at Scott's throat, undercutting him, playing the Lancer to Scott's Leader, and it took them ages to find a place of mutual respect for their very different ways of doing things. Magneto and Xavier similarly took a *long* time before they could sit at the same table.

If comics stopped being written today, and there was never any followup to this last conversation between Storm and Xavier, yes, that would be a sucky way to close things out. But I think we all know, barring a sudden meteor impact obliterating all life on the planet, the story of these characters is not over...

I completely agree! Ewing writing this exchange in a way that exhibits both of their flaws makes it all the more compelling and relatable.

[Havok83]

This 100%. I think the brilliance of Ewing's take in this issue is showing how much of a victim Charles is of himself, of his arrogance, of his fears, how much having Krakoa and mutantkind on his shoulders, especially now that Moira and Max are not around anymore, weights on him.

Charles is human, fallible and failing but hardly a villain. That is why Ororo parts way with him not as a friend but not as an enemy either and doesn't just fry him with a lightning bolt.

Storm also doesnt trust him and with good reasons. Him trying so boldly to invade her mind was such a violation and he's never been that blatant about it with his allies. Considering the SOS revelations, its understandable that she might even think that act may be bc of some underlying Sinister influence

[ARkadelphia]

I think Ororo is simply coming to terms with being the Queen of The Sol System and is pulling rank on ol' Charles.

Aretha Franklin is the queen of soul, not Ororo

[Lucyinthesky]

The question to ask is for all of Xavier's supposed "shady" actions is have they been done in service of mutantkind or have they done for selfish reasons. Did he create Krakoa for his own hubris or for mutants, did he have to create the QC or could he and Magneto have ruled together. The only "questionable" thing he did was to string Mystique along regarding Destiny. Add considering all the crap Destiny has done since her resurrection it's looking like Charles had the right idea. I'm not saying the guy is saint, no one is; but the constant negative portrayal of Xavier as some monster who needs to be humbled, who needs to fall is tiresome. At least with Beast's current portrayal you could say it's in service to some bigger story and will be corrected in due time. With Xavier it's like a default setting of his character, if he's in a story he's the biggest a-hole doing something shady. They can't write the guy any other way.

I personally think Krakoa was a good idea, just like Utopia, Genosha or even Avalon was a good idea for mutants who definitely were too persecuted in their places of origin so they needed a place in which living didn´t become a daily issue of survival but as always the devil is in the details.

I don´t think Charles should be blamed for Krakoa´s creation honestly, no when so many mutants including the X-men have beneficed from it and he didn´t do it for a selfish reason, in fact he pretty much had to fail at achieving his original dream to look at the possibility of Krakoa as an alternative, hence why Moira said she had to "break him" so he would "see" while Magneto was already there from the beggining because he already had seen what happened when a persecuted people became the objective of their own nation.




I personally prefer when writers show Charles as a flawed but well meaning man who sometimes gets carried away by his own self righteous actions and hubris but who ultimately wants to do good for the world, so he occasionally gets wake up calls from himself or the people he trusts.


What I have found frustrating sometimes is that many of the shady things he did back in his "X-men leader tm" era were very much buried, hidden or the narrative framed them as something neccesary and good, bassically treating Charles as a character unable to take personal responsibility for his actions, because he´s a "saint tm" but now the opposite case is being done, he´s almost always despicted with most of his flaws and almost nothing of his virtues and the characters act as if they hate him when he has much responsibility for the personal grow of them as people, those two aspects are extremes that make Charles a lesser character and I think a middle point will need to be addressed at some point, hence why I fear fall of X will be about him being demonized instead of being written as the nuanced complex character he actually is. I am hoping for him to be written with nuance but also I am bracing for his "villain" characterization.

Beast is a lost cause for me, he´s completely unrecognizable and I personally hope this era for him ends and he can start from the beggining because he´s been completely ruined for me.

Now talking about Charles and Ororo interaction, I noticed something interesting Ewing seems to be doing here, it´s the fact that Charles usually wears his "wise mentor hat" when he talks to the X-men who were his students and he used to do this with Storm at some level before but in this issue, he completely let go of his "wise mentor" persona and started to behave more like he does with his friends like Erik or Moira, who knew him before he became the X-men leader and this definitely got a negative reaction from Storm, because while she has criticized Charles in the past, she´s never seen him show his fears, frustration and anger so openly and I think it´s interesting he´s finally giving himself permission to show those less savory aspects of his persona to his grow up students, because it shows he sees them now as actual adults who can handle him when he´s not at his best, this talks about his trust in Ororo but also his loneliness. This could be good for the character to advance in his characterization but only if the nuance if this nuance is keep and he isn´t made a villain for showing human vulnerability.

On the other hand, I don´t blame Ororo for her reaction, given Charles definitely crossed a line with his mental attack but I don´t think this is Sinister influence, Charles always had deep buried rage that sometimes got the better of him, so I see this as him lashing out to Storm while she fairly defends herself and stablishes her own line for future interactions between them. I also agree with Mercury that both are showing part of their own self righteous aspects of their personality but this only makes them more human because they are finally tackling some long buried issues they always avoided in the past.

[Hulkout42]

I'm not defending Xavier for his actions against Storm (he did attack her after all, no if's, and's or but's about that), i mean i get he is coming from a bad place right now where he has no real back up and has just learned something that has left him severely rattled (SoS) and questioning himself as a leader of a nation, though that said how much of his actions during the Krakoa can at least be justified by the simple fact that he is the end result of Moira (in her own words back in House/Power of X) essentially breaking him from who he originally was and rebuilding him into who she needed him to be to get the Krakoa era rolling alongside Magneto?

I only ask that because after going over the issue again i see that panel where he is in the wheelchair talking to her for the first time and then it struck me that event couldn't have happened because Moira got to him beforehand, unless of course editors being what they are currently just fucked up again.

Also on a side note, before the Krakoan era, were his and her past interactions that combative to the point where she has had enough of him?

[Lucyinthesky]

Charles and Moira relationship had it´s ups and downs, she was the "Woman" for Charles for a long time, her rejecting his offer of marriage while he was at War lead to his travel for self discovery in which he meet child Ororo, Magneto and Gabrielle Haller, David´s mother. Still he contacted her back when he needed support to built his School for Gifted students, she keep his most deep secrets, like the Xavier protocols that were a guide to defeat his students, magneto and himself in case they lost control of themselves or their powers. She raised rahne and became Proteus mother from an unhappy marriage. She pretty much was a self made woman and scientist and a great support for the X-men despite being human.



The Moira in the current comics doesnt resemble much the Moira of the past, she was very much rewriten into a cynical version of herself who has lived too many lives to care much about what happens anymore except to secure her own survival.

Now about Charles, I agree current Moira had a role to play in convincing him about Krakoa but I believe ultimately the choice was his and his alone,he´s never been someone who´s easily manipulated unless he´s convinced at some point and marvel did enough "end of mutants" events besides decimation and the inhuman toxic gas to convince any rational person that another approach could be neccesary. I also believe he took some comfort in Moira, Magneto and him working together for the first time in ages so now that he´s on his own and isolated/conflict with his students he feels alone and fairly afraid of not being able to keep being a good leader for the nation.



But Krakoa wasn´t the first time Charles and Magneto joined forces, they also did that to try to rebuilt Genosha before HoM while Moira was "dead" during this era.

[Micabe]

In issues i read but if your looking for someone to say this issue, this series, this etc just to prove a point. I'm not the one. But i will say it's been showed in vol one of xtreme.

Umm... I'm pretty sure Ororo stated that Xavier taught everyone that very same anti-psychic probe technique so she didn't actually do anything that any other old-school X-Man/Woman couldn't do. Anyway, I'm going thru X-Treme X-Men as I type this and since there are only 46 issues (2001-2004) in Vol. #1 that pic/frame/page you're speaking of shouldn't be too difficult for me to find and post

[loke13]

Umm... I'm pretty sure Ororo stated that Xavier taught everyone that very same anti-psychic probe technique so she didn't actually do anything that any other old-school X-Man/Woman couldn't do. Anyway, I'm going thru X-Treme X-Men as I type this and since there are only 46 issues (2001-2004) in Vol. #1 that pic/frame/page you're speaking of shouldn't be too difficult for me to find and post

No one said she did lol just that Storm has natural defenses against telepathy outside of the "red triangle protocol" that Xavier taught his students.

[Micabe]

Aretha Franklin is the queen of soul, not Ororo

No offense but, that was pathetically weak...

Please, try again

[Rift]

No offense but, that was pathetically weak...

Please, try again

Hey, their joke had me laughing for a good while!

[ARkadelphia]

Hey, their joke had me laughing for a good while!

And I thank you for your support!

[Micabe]

No one said she did lol just that Storm has natural defenses against telepathy outside of the "red triangle protocol" that Xavier taught his students.

But, were discussing Ororo's stated use of the "red triangle protocol" that Xavier taught all his students are we not?

[jwatson]

Pretty much why i didn't answer the latest question i know a good bait and switch. if we are talking about red triangle only or that was the implication why search xtreme when we know everything about the red triangle protocol so on some level it must be known it was talking about more. lol Besides the original response was pretty clear but the answer rephrased the statement to make it specifically about red triangle. lol