X-Men Red #11 - Review/Spoilers

[OG Storm]

I trust ewing to write well, but I'm still miffed that he killed off the most interesting guy introduced in X of Swords for Apocalypse's bland family.

Until we see a body or a death scene we don't know if he's dead.

[JB]

Until we see a body or a death scene we don't know if he's dead.

Agreed. Resurrection is the name of his game so I'm not counting him out yet.

And to be honest I'm not yet convinced about Ironfire's loyalties and allegiance. I loved him in SOS but his conversation with Mother Righteous has me skeptical about his initial intentions.

[Kingdom X]

Magneto probably wouldn't care if Storm told him about the Xavier stuff. The point of his message was for Storm to look out for him.
I finally got to read the issue more thoroughly. Magneto's words about Xavier were never a secret he wanted Storm to keep. She could have just told him right away and saved both of them so much grief. Like she ends up telling him anyway. It doesn't excuse what Xavier did when he didn't get his way, but it felt a bit roundabout just to get to the drama.

But it wasn’t just to look out for him, it was to keep an eye on him because he might do something to screw over mutantkind. I can see two main reasons why Ororo wouldn’t want to share, outside of the fact that by nature it was a very intimate and private conversation:

1. To spare Charles feelings. Knowing that his besties’ last words were essentially, “While I love Charles, his hubris might get you all killed,” might be more than a little hurtful.
2. Not to tip Charles off. If Charles knows that Ororo is keeping an extra close eye on him and viewing him with some level of suspicion, he’s likely to be even more secretive and shady than he already is.

[Alpha]

How long will this Genesis war be? I have to imagine that this will be a long story arc. Probably multiple trades right? I mean, what other story arcs have been teased? Solaris is still out there causing trouble, but there's no urgency to his plans. And since Ewing has a book that is guaranteed to last a few more years, he can certainly continue this thing. Heck, Fall of X might be the first time where his booked is almost guaranteed to be left alone by crossovers, since the mutant community will be dispersed and Arakko will be on it's own.

They do still have the Uranos nuke they can use when they want to. Although I do wonder under whose control that is. The council as a whole? Could Storm or any future traitors in the council unleash Uranos without a vote?

[Rift]

But who gets to say that. You don't know what someone elses private moments are. I try not to think myself that important, i honestly do. I don't assume i mean more to my friends than my other friends, i may feel i do but it's not my job to invalidate other relationships to stroke my own ego on what i feel my place is in someones life. Friends grow and move on and change and make other friends, you may always know a version of them but that doesn't mean you can discredit someone else interactions with them just because "well i know i mattered more" maybe that's a hard thing to hear but it is what it is. paranoia is not logical it is usually a symptom of something. We the reader know Magneto did not leave a slice of information for Xavier. So i'm not going to straddle the fence and act like there is some deep secret she could have given him to help him, because there wasn't. But even if there was, it was still her choice to share it. If that hurts HIS feelings she can acknowledge it but empathy is not hurting yourself to feel someone else's pain or soothe it or subjecting yourself to something you don't want to do. Sort of how she respected Xavier wasn't ready to talk about Magneto in Immortal#11.

There's a difference between "Not hurting yourself to feel someone else's pain or soothe it," and "Being obtuse to a person who's in a bad mental place and making a situation worse." She's not obligated to defer to Xavier and his tantrum. Like I get it's her choice. But it's a dumb choice that goes against Mags' secret in the first place. He wanted her to guide him on a better path, and she's just upsetting him.

Like she respects Mags and this words so much, but she won't actually follow through with his wishes? The whole point of that scene? The dying words of your friend, Xavier's grief & mental stability, and the safety of mutantkind (which Magneto highlighted in said dying words) aren't as important as her feelings?

But it wasn’t just to look out for him, it was to keep an eye on him because he might do something to screw over mutantkind. I can see two main reasons why Ororo wouldn’t want to share, outside of the fact that by nature it was a very intimate and private conversation:

1. To spare Charles feelings. Knowing that his besties’ last words were essentially, “While I love Charles, his hubris might get you all killed,” might be more than a little hurtful.
2. Not to tip Charles off. If Charles knows that Ororo is keeping an extra close eye on him and viewing him with some level of suspicion, he’s likely to be even more secretive and shady than he already is.

Now these are pretty good reasons. And now that I think about it more, I definitely think sparing Xavier's feelings were a motivator. Tbh though, I don't feel like #2 was one of the reasons. It didn't feel like that's what Ororo was thinking at the moment, and she eventually told him anyway. She was acknowledging his bad sides, but not in relation to his martyr complex - just how he's personally wronged her, and his issues with trying to control people.

I still feel like telling Xavier would be the right call. It would hurt, but being made aware of his biggest flaw, from the perspective of the person he respects and loves the most, would be a big eye-opener. He's more likely to heed Magneto's words and have a moment of self-reflection. He can't learn from his flaws and avoid his mistakes if he doesn't know about them.

Also, she can't keep an eye on him if he makes it seem like he can't trust her. The way she went about it just gave him more reasons to dislike her. She should have lied and said Magneto confessed his romantic desire and carnal lust for Xavier on his deathbed. Baldy would have no further questions.

[Kingdom X]

There's a difference between "Not hurting yourself to feel someone else's pain or soothe it," and "Being obtuse to a person who's in a bad mental place and making a situation worse." She's not obligated to defer to Xavier and his tantrum. Like I get it's her choice. But it's a dumb choice that goes against Mags' secret in the first place. He wanted her to guide him on a better path, and she's just upsetting him.

Like she respects Mags and this words so much, but she won't actually follow through with his wishes? The whole point of that scene? The dying words of your friend, Xavier's grief & mental stability, and the safety of mutantkind (which Magneto highlighted in said dying words) aren't as important as her feelings?


Now these are pretty good reasons. And now that I think about it more, I definitely think sparing Xavier's feelings were a motivator. Tbh though, I don't feel like #2 was one of the reasons. It didn't feel like that's what Ororo was thinking at the moment, and she eventually told him anyway. She was acknowledging his bad sides, but not in relation to his martyr complex - just how he's personally wronged her, and his issues with trying to control people.

I still feel like telling Xavier would be the right call. It would hurt, but being made aware of his biggest flaw, from the perspective of the person he respects and loves the most, would be a big eye-opener. He's more likely to heed Magneto's words and have a moment of self-reflection. He can't learn from his flaws and avoid his mistakes if he doesn't know about them.

Also, she can't keep an eye on him if he makes it seem like he can't trust her. The way she went about it just gave him more reasons to dislike her. She should have lied and said Magneto confessed his romantic desire and carnal lust for Xavier on his deathbed. Baldy would have no further questions.

I’m screaming! It’s the way that Charles and Max are husbands in my mind the same way that Destiny and Mystique were wives with only recent confirmation.

[Lucyinthesky]

As all Ewing issues, this one was done very well and with respect to previous continuity.

My take on Charles this issue is that he´s grieving the loss of control over his own mind and body and this is something that terrifies him, because since the foundation of the X-men,he´s always been the one "in control of himself" the one who knows the answers, the one his students and other people can rely on to tackle down mutants who have lost control over their powers. Sinister being in control of him for so many years in an AU is something that attacks deeply Charles self image and makes him worried about the future of Krakoa now that their three founders are either dead, lost control over themselves or have become an enemy.

So my guess is that Charles is lashing out at Storm which I think is in character for him, Charles on occasions has been shady with his powers and it was easy for him to do this because he could justify to himself that he knew what he was doing, he was in control and he knew better than the people affected by his actions. He´s not as bad as other telepaths are but he does have this character flaw which can become dangerous when mixed with his self-righteousness.

So here he´s trying to make sense of what happened, he needs to be told it wasn´t him, it was Sinister and possibly Magneto because he didn´t told him and I believe Storm would have shared Magneto´s last words with him more easily if he wasn´t implying that Magneto may have been aware of what Sinister was doing and choose to tell Storm, not him, which made Ororo defensive of what she knew of Magneto´s last words, because she knows he didn´t know anything about Sinister and he was just worried about what Charles may convince himself he needs to do when led to desperation over leading Krakoa, given he´s someone who tends to make his own decisions without telling the people most affected by his choices. This is why Storm told him Magneto was worried about Charles himself, not about Sinister.

I also liked Ororo here, my take on her this issue is that she has issues over Charles brand of leadership, she always has, in the past she resented Charles choosing Scott over her to be the X-men leader, she didn´t like Charles talking over her in the first Secret Wars crossover and not considering her advice and previous experience in how to handle the team, making her feel as if she was wrong for trying to give her own take on the situation, so when Magneto was left in charge of the New Mutants, he told Storm and Scott to decide between themselves who was going to be the new X-men leader, which they did with the duel Storm won. I believe this is at the heart of Ororo issues with Charles here and also her defensiveness of Magneto´s last words, because while Charles showed himself as an authority figure everybody had to obey as the X-men leader, Magneto was aware he wasn´t someone who the X-men should trust given his past actions, so he respected their decision to choose how to lead themselves. Magneto may have been wrong in many other choices he took and Charles may have been right but to Storm, when it comes to the issue of leadership, it´s clear to her Charles has shown himself in the past way more self righteous than Magneto and this is what she took from Max last words about watching out for Charles.

As for Charles words about Magneto "never letting him know him as Max" I believe it´s his grief over his death, resentment over him leaving him behind but also an issue he´s long held in their relationship,Magneto never trusted him with his most deep/buried feelings over the loss of his family, Charles had to learn from Dr Strange about Anya´s death and how this affected Erik to become Magneto, he never told him about his human family or even told him his real birth name or to call him with it, all this must sting Xavier deeply, because despite their fights, he´s his friend, his best friend should be able to trust him but he doesn´t because they also were enemies for a long time and Magneto knew it isn´t beyond charles to use his memories of his lost family agaisn´t him and Charles knows this.

I felt deeply for Charles, Ororo and Magneto here.

The stuff with Sunspot was great, can´t wait to see Genesis next issue its about time for Apocalypse to come back

[Rift]

I’m screaming! It’s the way that Charles and Max are husbands in my mind the same way that Destiny and Mystique were wives with only recent confirmation.

Xavier and Magneto are gay married, but they're also straight friends. It's very complicated, tbh. He would bang Magneto if he was a Scottish MILF. But he's a DILF, and Xavier doesn't like threats to his authority.

[The tall man]

since Krakoa came into being, outside of keeping Moira's existence and past lives a secret, exactly what underhanded, shady stuff has Xavier done? And honestly I don't consider keeping her secret a big deal, it was what she wanted and he was respecting her wishes. But all I keep reading is Xavier is so awful for doing this or that, things that happen years ago both in universe and out. It's like people can make infinite excuses for the horrible actions committed by many characters but none for Xavier, even his founding of the X-men to fight for mutantkind is seen as something to be castigated for. The guy cannot catch a break and the writers seem determined to double down on how horrible a character he is. He is the definition of character assasination at it's finest. It says a lot when Magneto, Apocalypse, Emma, Destiny and Mystique just to name a few are more beloved, respected and accepted by x-fans than Xavier. That they get more excuses and understanding and forgiveness than Xavier. That they are seen as more heroic than Xavier. He is truly the whipping boy of Krakoa and mutantkind in general.

[jwatson]

There's a difference between "Not hurting yourself to feel someone else's pain or soothe it," and "Being obtuse to a person who's in a bad mental place and making a situation worse." She's not obligated to defer to Xavier and his tantrum. Like I get it's her choice. But it's a dumb choice that goes against Mags' secret in the first place. He wanted her to guide him on a better path, and she's just upsetting him.

Like she respects Mags and this words so much, but she won't actually follow through with his wishes? The whole point of that scene? The dying words of your friend, Xavier's grief & mental stability, and the safety of mutantkind (which Magneto highlighted in said dying words) aren't as important as her feelings?


Now these are pretty good reasons. And now that I think about it more, I definitely think sparing Xavier's feelings were a motivator. Tbh though, I don't feel like #2 was one of the reasons. It didn't feel like that's what Ororo was thinking at the moment, and she eventually told him anyway. She was acknowledging his bad sides, but not in relation to his martyr complex - just how he's personally wronged her, and his issues with trying to control people.

I still feel like telling Xavier would be the right call. It would hurt, but being made aware of his biggest flaw, from the perspective of the person he respects and loves the most, would be a big eye-opener. He's more likely to heed Magneto's words and have a moment of self-reflection. He can't learn from his flaws and avoid his mistakes if he doesn't know about them.

Also, she can't keep an eye on him if he makes it seem like he can't trust her. The way she went about it just gave him more reasons to dislike her. She should have lied and said Magneto confessed his romantic desire and carnal lust for Xavier on his deathbed. Baldy would have no further questions.

that's a personal opinion and that is also quantifying that someone else's pain may mean more than someone else and the only one who can make that decision is a person for themselves. it's it's no one's place to say someone elses choice is stupid just because "They" feel it would have been easier to just give someone what they wanted when you didn't want t give it. It seems like a pretty selfish way of thinking to me.

[Rift]

that's a personal opinion and that is also quantifying that someone else's pain may mean more than someone else and the only one who can make that decision is a person for themselves. it's it's no one's place to say someone elses choice is stupid just because "They" feel it would have been easier to just give someone what they wanted when you didn't want t give it. It seems like a pretty selfish way of thinking to me.

I mean normally I agree. And that's why I said that they're both fairly justified in how they feel. But this isn't just about their personal feelings - it's about Magneto's, and about the entire destruction of mutantkind. Protecting millions of innocent lives is more important than Storm's or Xavier's feelings.

[jwatson]

I mean normally I agree. And that's why I said that they're both fairly justified in how they feel. But this isn't just about their personal feelings - it's about Magneto's, and about the entire destruction of mutantkind. Protecting millions of innocent lives is more important than Storm's or Xavier's feelings.

It wasn't about all that. It was about Storm's choice to not share information she didn't want to with a man she saw as a father figure. People can make it as deep as they want and i get what your saying, we just disagree on a fundamental level and that's cool. I felt bad for everyone here and my take is more close to Lucyinthesky but i can feel bad for Xavier without making excuses for him or making his violating of someone else right or what not. it matters when i think of xavier it does not matter when i think of the moment between xavier and storm.

[ZephyrSurf]

since Krakoa came into being, outside of keeping Moira's existence and past lives a secret, exactly what underhanded, shady stuff has Xavier done? And honestly I don't consider keeping her secret a big deal, it was what she wanted and he was respecting her wishes. But all I keep reading is Xavier is so awful for doing this or that, things that happen years ago both in universe and out. It's like people can make infinite excuses for the horrible actions committed by many characters but none for Xavier, even his founding of the X-men to fight for mutantkind is seen as something to be castigated for. The guy cannot catch a break and the writers seem determined to double down on how horrible a character he is. He is the definition of character assasination at it's finest. It says a lot when Magneto, Apocalypse, Emma, Destiny and Mystique just to name a few are more beloved, respected and accepted by x-fans than Xavier. That they get more excuses and understanding and forgiveness than Xavier. That they are seen as more heroic than Xavier. He is truly the whipping boy of Krakoa and mutantkind in general.

Unfortunately, everything X-force is cosigned to Xavier.

Even ignoring that,
Xavier's general disinterest in core societal things has been a passing plot point in New Mutants and X-factor
and there's all his stuff with Legion in the spurrier books

Also the **** he's done to Reed Richards

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree Xavier is probably going to be blamed for a lot of shady things, my guess is that "fall of X" is going to be about Charles "fall from grace" and maybe the end of Krakoa, he certainly had done shady things in the past but the creation of Krakoa itself, besides his deal with Sinister and the Moira issue, has not been something I think he would consider shady. I hope his character at least will be handled with the nuance he deserves and doesn´t just gets villified for the sake to taking him out of the story.

[The Regent]

As all Ewing issues, this one was done very well and with respect to previous continuity.

My take on Charles this issue is that he´s grieving the loss of control over his own mind and body and this is something that terrifies him, because since the foundation of the X-men,he´s always been the one "in control of himself" the one who knows the answers, the one his students and other people can rely on to tackle down mutants who have lost control over their powers. Sinister being in control of him for so many years in an AU is something that attacks deeply Charles self image and makes him worried about the future of Krakoa now that their three founders are either dead, lost control over themselves or have become an enemy.

So my guess is that Charles is lashing out at Storm which I think is in character for him, Charles on occasions has been shady with his powers and it was easy for him to do this because he could justify to himself that he knew what he was doing, he was in control and he knew better than the people affected by his actions. He´s not as bad as other telepaths are but he does have this character flaw which can become dangerous when mixed with his self-righteousness.

So here he´s trying to make sense of what happened, he needs to be told it wasn´t him, it was Sinister and possibly Magneto because he didn´t told him and I believe Storm would have shared Magneto´s last words with him more easily if he wasn´t implying that Magneto may have been aware of what Sinister was doing and choose to tell Storm, not him, which made Ororo defensive of what she knew of Magneto´s last words, because she knows he didn´t know anything about Sinister and he was just worried about what Charles may convince himself he needs to do when led to desperation over leading Krakoa, given he´s someone who tends to make his own decisions without telling the people most affected by his choices. This is why Storm told him Magneto was worried about Charles himself, not about Sinister.

I also liked Ororo here, my take on her this issue is that she has issues over Charles brand of leadership, she always has, in the past she resented Charles choosing Scott over her to be the X-men leader, she didn´t like Charles talking over her in the first Secret Wars crossover and not considering her advice and previous experience in how to handle the team, making her feel as if she was wrong for trying to give her own take on the situation, so when Magneto was left in charge of the New Mutants, he told Storm and Scott to decide between themselves who was going to be the new X-men leader, which they did with the duel Storm won. I believe this is at the heart of Ororo issues with Charles here and also her defensiveness of Magneto´s last words, because while Charles showed himself as an authority figure everybody had to obey as the X-men leader, Magneto was aware he wasn´t someone who the X-men should trust given his past actions, so he respected their decision to choose how to lead themselves. Magneto may have been wrong in many other of choices he took and Charles may have been right but to Storm, when it comes to the issue of leadership, it´s clear to her Charles has shown himself in the past way more self righteous than Magneto and this is what she took from Max last words about watching out for Charles.

As for Charles words about Magneto "never letting him know him as Max" I believe it´s his grief over his death, resentment over him leaving him behind but also an issue he´s long held in their relationship,Magneto never trusted him with his most deep/buried feelings over the loss of his family, Charles had to learn from Dr Strange about Anya´s death and how this affected Erik to become Magneto, he never told him about his human family or even told him his real birth name or to call him with it, all this must sting Xavier deeply, because despite their fights, he´s his friend, his best friend should be able to trust him but he doesn´t because they also were enemies for a long time and Magneto knew it isn´t beyond charles to use his memories of his lost family agaisn´t him and Charles knows this.

I felt deeply for Charles, Ororo and Magneto here.

The stuff with Sunspot was great, can´t wait to see Genesis next issue its about time for Apocalypse to come back

Now you preached a good word there, yes a fine word and I didn't know that Magneto withheld the loss of his daughter and human family from him yet Dr. Strange knew... that's deep.