Dan Watters & Eddy Barrows On Doomsday Special #1

[Vordan]

Forgot to mention that the Doomdogs in the backup being living beasts spawn of the idea of Doomsday scarring Hell, is such a goddamn metal as hell premise. Pains me to admit it but Doomsday was pretty cool here.

[Thor-Ul]

Forgot to mention that the Doomdogs in the backup being living beasts spawn of the idea of Doomsday scarring Hell, is such a goddamn metal as hell premise. Pains me to admit it but Doomsday was pretty cool here.

do you think than PKJ had some influence in this story? I mena, it is the kind of story he can explore. It reminds me of the Phantom zone exploration by the House of El in some way.

[Vordan]

do you think than PKJ had some influence in this story? I mena, it is the kind of story he can explore. It reminds me of the Phantom zone exploration by the House of El in some way.

That Aethyr stuff PKJ used actually comes from a Steve Gerber Phantom Zone mini which I highly recommend (great story). He and Watters are close however, Watters did a one shot tie-in to The Last God, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the two talked since this seems to be setting stuff up for Williamson and PKJ. Speaking of which, seems like Watters will be writing Bloodwynd backups in Action soon.

[DABellWrites]

The art was good. The writing okay. Nice Kara and MM team up, I'd take more of that. Clark was blegh, like always when I read contemporary Superman stuff. The idea of hell needing a Superman is dumb. Do we really need some random guy trying to save people in Hell? The whole point of hell is that... it's hell. You're supposed to suffer there. I'm just hoping they'll stay neutral on the topic. Other than that. What will Doomsday escape from next? Heaven?! The clutches of God?!

[Vordan]

The art was good. The writing okay. Nice Kara and MM team up, I'd take more of that. Clark was blegh, like always when I read contemporary Superman stuff. The idea of hell needing a Superman is dumb. Do we really need some random guy trying to save people in Hell? The whole point of hell is that... it's hell. You're supposed to suffer there. I'm just hoping they'll stay neutral on the topic. Other than that. What will Doomsday escape from next? Heaven?! The clutches of God?!

Lmao what? If the Spectre choose to execute someone for their crimes in front of Superman or Batman, doesn’t matter that he’s the Wrath of God, they would still take issue with that. Hell Clark has arm wrestled angels into submission, DC Superheroes have no problem taking on deities or agents of deities.

[Mantis-Ray]

Lmao what? If the Spectre choose to execute someone for their crimes in front of Superman or Batman, doesn’t matter that he’s the Wrath of God, they would still take issue with that. Hell Clark has arm wrestled angels into submission, DC Superheroes have no problem taking on deities or agents of deities.

The book clearly takes issue with the eternal suffering bit. It very obviously humanizes the inmates of Hell in that regardless of what crimes they committed in life they are still ultimately human beings capable of some decency. And honestly the concept of eternal suffering is overkill, considering these people are being tortured in the worst way possible and being turned into desiccated soulless husks.

I do very enjoy Kara's reaction here, where as someone from a culture had no concept of Hell, the discovery that it does indeed exist and is absolutely brutal would be an absolutely horrific and barbaric concept to her. Maybe someone should tell her about the various other kinds of afterlives in the many religions on Earth, some are more merciful than the typical fire and brimstone Hell.

Cool that Bloodwynd is getting a second shot at life, that Lazarus Planet story was setting up a character after all. I do hear he's pretty underrated so its cool to have him back.

[Triniking1234]

Normally I wouldn't bother with something like this but I read Dan Watters' Loki which is OK so I *might* try this.

[DABellWrites]

Lmao what? If the Spectre choose to execute someone for their crimes in front of Superman or Batman, doesn’t matter that he’s the Wrath of God, they would still take issue with that. Hell Clark has arm wrestled angels into submission, DC Superheroes have no problem taking on deities or agents of deities.

Big difference from Bloodwyne being written to say "None of us deserve this place."

The book clearly takes issue with the eternal suffering bit. It very obviously humanizes the inmates of Hell in that regardless of what crimes they committed in life they are still ultimately human beings capable of some decency. And honestly the concept of eternal suffering is overkill, considering these people are being tortured in the worst way possible and being turned into desiccated soulless husks.

I do very enjoy Kara's reaction here, where as someone from a culture had no concept of Hell, the discovery that it does indeed exist and is absolutely brutal would be an absolutely horrific and barbaric concept to her. Maybe someone should tell her about the various other kinds of afterlives in the many religions on Earth, some are more merciful than the typical fire and brimstone Hell.

Cool that Bloodwynd is getting a second shot at life, that Lazarus Planet story was setting up a character after all. I do hear he's pretty underrated so its cool to have him back.

Yes. That's the point of hell. It doesn't matter if you think its overkill, the whole point is people are there to suffer.

[Vordan]

Big difference from Bloodwyne being written to say "None of us deserve this place."



Yes. That's the point of hell. It doesn't matter if you think its overkill, the whole point is people are there to suffer.

Bloodwynd begs to differ which is why he’s trying to change things.

[DABellWrites]

Bloodwynd begs to differ which is why he’s trying to change things.

That's my problem with the issue. If he was trying to save innocent people, who somehow got sent to hell like how Alan Moore did it, I'd be all for the concept. But, I got the strong feeling Dan Watters is going to push his beliefs. I specifically remember his Superman/Wonder Woman Future Book has Jon mentioning he doesn't believe in Gods. I don't know how you guys feel on the topic nor anyone else, but I don't want to read someone using these characters to spout their political or religious beliefs. I'll read it an original work, but not established characters.

[Vordan]

That's my problem with the issue. If he was trying to save innocent people, who somehow got sent to hell like how Alan Moore did it, I'd be all for the concept. But, I got the strong feeling Dan Watters is going to push his beliefs. I specifically remember his Superman/Wonder Woman Future Book has Jon mentioning he doesn't believe in Gods. I don't know how you guys feel on the topic nor anyone else, but I don't want to read someone using these characters to spout their political or religious beliefs. I'll read it an original work, but not established characters.

Is a character implicitly accepting the idea of Hell as just *not* the writer injecting their religious beliefs? After all if you’re not a believer, there’s no reason you'd just accept the “necessity” of Hell. Not like non-Christians attacking the concept of Hell as unjust is something new. Heck even Mark Waid had Superman say he doesn’t believe in Hell over in World’s Finest because he thinks the concept is immoral. I see no problem with a superhero disliking the status quo and working to change it. If you’re a Christian and this feels like an attack, I would simply say that the DCU isn’t “our” world, and far as depictions of the Christian belief system go this is fairly tame. Hellblazer really dunks on organized religion and something like Ostrander’s Spectre run is outright heretical in how it approaches God. DC (and Marvel too given the stuff they let Aaron get away with) is not the place to go for uncritical portrayal of religion imo.

[DABellWrites]

Is a character implicitly accepting the idea of Hell as just *not* the writer injecting their religious beliefs? After all if you’re not a believer, there’s no reason you'd just accept the “necessity” of Hell. Not like non-Christians attacking the concept of Hell as unjust is something new. Heck even Mark Waid had Superman say he doesn’t believe in Hell over in World’s Finest because he thinks the concept is immoral. I see no problem with a superhero disliking the status quo and working to change it. If you’re a Christian and this feels like an attack, I would simply say that the DCU isn’t “our” world, and far as depictions of the Christian belief system go this is fairly tame. Hellblazer really dunks on organized religion and something like Ostrander’s Spectre run is outright heretical in how it approaches God. DC (and Marvel too given the stuff they let Aaron get away with) is not the place to go for uncritical portrayal of religion imo.

It's not about being Christian. I just hold the idea that established characters don't need to be saddled with someone's else political belief or religious belief. It's pointless bagged the character doesn't need. That's why I haven't read Denny O'neil's Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories, I don't want to see him using Ollie as a mouthpiece. It's far too close to self-insertion. And, What other creators did in the past or present doesn't really change anything for me. Heck, I avoid inserting my own beliefs into my own creations. I just want the characters to stand on their own, not as a prop. This is my view of writing, I know history says otherwise. In a weird way, Ford from Westworld influenced me with his speech about Hosts being these perfect creatures free from the problems that plague humans.

Anyways, I'm not saying you can't write these characters with a political opinion or religious belief, or even tackle a hot topic. Just do it in a way that makes sense for the character.
Now, I'll be admit to being wrong if Dan Watters doesn't go that route. However, I get the feeling that's the route he's going. He already had Jon professing to being an atheist. And well, it won't be a Bloodwyn story anymore, just Dan Watters spouting his beliefs.

[Vordan]

It's not about being Christian. I just hold the idea that established characters don't need to be saddled with someone's else political belief or religious belief. It's pointless bagged the character doesn't need. That's why I haven't read Denny O'neil's Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories, I don't want to see him using Ollie as a mouthpiece. It's far too close to self-insertion. And, What other creators did in the past or present doesn't really change anything for me. Heck, I avoid inserting my own beliefs into my own creations. I just want the characters to stand on their own, not as a prop. This is my view of writing, I know history says otherwise. In a weird way, Ford from Westworld influenced me with his speech about Hosts being these perfect creatures free from the problems that plague humans.

Anyways, I'm not saying you can't write these characters with a political opinion or religious belief, or even tackle a hot topic. Just do it in a way that makes sense for the character.
Now, I'll be admit to being wrong if Dan Watters doesn't go that route. However, I get the feeling that's the route he's going. He already had Jon professing to being an atheist. And well, it won't be a Bloodwyn story anymore, just Dan Watters spouting his beliefs.

Unless you can point to Bloodwynd professing some kind of religious belief previously (and even then this is basically a rebooted Bloodwynd), it’s fair game for Watters to define his spiritual beliefs any way he likes. Not like Bloodwynd was a well established character prior to this anyway.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Unless you can point to Bloodwynd professing some kind of religious belief previously (and even then this is basically a rebooted Bloodwynd), it’s fair game for Watters to define his spiritual beliefs any way he likes. Not like Bloodwynd was a well established character prior to this anyway.

DOn't quote me for sure but I think he was a Vodoo priest once.

[Vordan]

DOn't quote me for sure but I think he was a Vodoo priest once.

Hah well if so that’s obviously going to bring a hugely different perspective on spiritual matters then.