Should Shocker be a serious villain or just comic relief?

[hbomb450]

For some reason, I always liked how in Spider-Island when Shocker starts mutating he calls out to 'Spidey' for help and Spider-man calls him 'Herman.' Like there's a courtesy there in that Shocker knows Spidey won't turn his back on him if he needs help and Spider-Man can be on a first name basis with Shocker because he's not a psychopath or out to really hurt anybody.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Comedic.

The best thing about Shocker is he's a villain without some tragic origin or grandiose ideals He's just a crook with some expensive toys trying to get a quick payday. Of course, that doesn't mean he needs to be incompetent.

[babyblob]

I like The Shocker.

Here is my take on him.

Is he smart? Heck yes. He invented some cool tech. Should he be a threat on Par with Doc Ock or Green Goblin? No. Should he be like The Ultimate Shocker that we seem to get so much? No. He is a guy that knows what he is doing. But at the end of the day is not this world breaking threat to Spiderman. Some one who comes along and is a bit of a pain but not someone you think will take Spidey Down.

He also does not need this big tragic back story. Not every villain needs some tragic back story. Some times they are just greedy pricks that want a quick score and there is nothing more to it.

I want him as the thug with a cool gimmick that tries to rob banks. Not a mass murder, not some tragic sobby back stories. Just a dude looking to get rich and not realizing that if leaves New York and goes somewhere like Iowa he can rob all the banks he wants without Spiderman to stop him.

[PCN24454]

Comedic.

The best thing about Shocker is he's a villain without some tragic origin or grandiose ideals He's just a crook with some expensive toys trying to get a quick payday. Of course, that doesn't mean he needs to be incompetent.

How does that make him comedic?

[CrimsonEchidna]

How does that make him comedic?

The comedic part is that he is just an otherwise regular guy that treats being a supervillain like it's office job who punches in and out.

[The Overlord]

I like The Shocker.

Here is my take on him.

Is he smart? Heck yes. He invented some cool tech. Should he be a threat on Par with Doc Ock or Green Goblin? No. Should he be like The Ultimate Shocker that we seem to get so much? No. He is a guy that knows what he is doing. But at the end of the day is not this world breaking threat to Spiderman. Some one who comes along and is a bit of a pain but not someone you think will take Spidey Down.

He also does not need this big tragic back story. Not every villain needs some tragic back story. Some times they are just greedy pricks that want a quick score and there is nothing more to it.

I want him as the thug with a cool gimmick that tries to rob banks. Not a mass murder, not some tragic sobby back stories. Just a dude looking to get rich and not realizing that if leaves New York and goes somewhere like Iowa he can rob all the banks he wants without Spiderman to stop him.

I think it's hard not to make Shocker comic relief if he is just guy who robs banks when he could have tried to use his technology to gain wealth legitimate, but doesn't for no good reason.

Forget a sob story, there is no logical reason for him to be a crook in the first place. He makes sense in the animated adaptations where he is usually a career criminal who is given his tech by a third party, that makes way more sense and he usually gets treated better in animation, he's usually given streets smarts rather than tech smarts in animation.

If you want Shocker to be a serious character you have to write him as a human being, if he is just comic relief, you can write him as a cartoon character and his actions and motivations don't have to make sense.

[babyblob]

I think it's hard not to make Shocker comic relief if he is just guy who robs banks when he could have tried to use his technology to gain wealth legitimate, but doesn't for no good reason.

Forget a sob story, there is no logical reason for him to be a crook in the first place. He makes sense in the animated adaptations where he is usually a career criminal who is given his tech by a third party, that makes way more sense and he usually gets treated better in animation, he's usually given streets smarts rather than tech smarts in animation.

If you want Shocker to be a serious character you have to write him as a human being, if he is just comic relief, you can write him as a cartoon character and his actions and motivations don't have to make sense.

Just because Shocker uses his tech to Rob Banks doesnt make him comic relief.

When you look at it that way then every tech based villain is comic relief. How many have invented amazing things that could make them rich and change the world just to be a basic thug. The Traspster, The Wizard, Shocker.

Maybe not so much the Wizard. He seems to have something to prove because of his obsession with the FF. But in his first appearance he was rich and well known already. So him turning to crime to become rich and well known does not work no matter how much back story you give him. He is made that he is rich and famous but The Torch and FF get more headlines? That is the dumbest motivation to give someone and that is what it was when he showed up in Strange Tales and started to go after the FF. And having him be jealous of Tourch and the FF does not make him more interesting or human. It makes him a lazy written character as that is a boring motivation used time and time again.

Non of their motivations of using their inventions to rob banks to get rich make any sense when you think of how Traspsters glue could be mass marketed and make him a fortune, The Wizards Anti Gav disks could be sold to the military. Hell all of his inventions he could have been just as up there as TOny Stark. The same with The Shocker. Not to mention the money they had to spend to make their stuff. How much does a batch of Traspers glue cost to make, or renting the facilities to mass produce it for his use?

Or The Wizard? How much does each Anti Gav Disk he makes cost?

So the idea of these guys using their inventions to turn to crime to get rich does not make any sense.

They are pretty much just smart thugs who at the end of the day want to get rich. That doesnt put them into the comic relief area by default. Just greedy jerks which do exist in this world and I am sure in the Marvel World.

The Motivations of a person being dumb does not make that person dumb, nor does it put them 100 percent of the time into the comic relief section of life.

And I never said you couldnt write them as a human being. Just no need for these big epic tragic back stories the writers want to seem to give everyone from Doc Ock to Joey the Pick Pocket. Some times people are just greedy idiots.

[The Overlord]

Just because Shocker uses his tech to Rob Banks doesnt make him comic relief.

When you look at it that way then every tech based villain is comic relief. How many have invented amazing things that could make them rich and change the world just to be a basic thug. The Traspster, The Wizard, Shocker.

Maybe not so much the Wizard. He seems to have something to prove because of his obsession with the FF. But in his first appearance he was rich and well known already. So him turning to crime to become rich and well known does not work no matter how much back story you give him. He is made that he is rich and famous but The Torch and FF get more headlines? That is the dumbest motivation to give someone and that is what it was when he showed up in Strange Tales and started to go after the FF. And having him be jealous of Tourch and the FF does not make him more interesting or human. It makes him a lazy written character as that is a boring motivation used time and time again.

Non of their motivations of using their inventions to rob banks to get rich make any sense when you think of how Traspsters glue could be mass marketed and make him a fortune, The Wizards Anti Gav disks could be sold to the military. Hell all of his inventions he could have been just as up there as TOny Stark. The same with The Shocker. Not to mention the money they had to spend to make their stuff. How much does a batch of Traspers glue cost to make, or renting the facilities to mass produce it for his use?

Or The Wizard? How much does each Anti Gav Disk he makes cost?

So the idea of these guys using their inventions to turn to crime to get rich does not make any sense.

They are pretty much just smart thugs who at the end of the day want to get rich. That doesnt put them into the comic relief area by default. Just greedy jerks which do exist in this world and I am sure in the Marvel World.

The Motivations of a person being dumb does not make that person dumb, nor does it put them 100 percent of the time into the comic relief section of life.

And I never said you couldnt write them as a human being. Just no need for these big epic tragic back stories the writers want to seem to give everyone from Doc Ock to Joey the Pick Pocket. Some times people are just greedy idiots.

The problem is I think Wizard and Trapster are crap villains who are both one-dimensional and have no business taking on the FF, a team that takes on gods on a regular basis. Are guys like Trapster, Shocker and Wizard smart or are they just greedy idiots? Wizard seems like he would be thousands of times more dangerous if he kept a clean criminal record and used his wealth to shield himself from the law, instead, he is a public nuisance the FF can beat up and toss in jail at their leisure, why I am supposed to buy that this guy is a threat to the FF?


The problem is the type of villain you are talking about has been parodied so often, Wizard may as well be akin to Dr. Evil from Austin Powers or Dr. Draken from Kim Possible, a supposed smart villain who could likely make millions or even billions legitimately but won't for no good reason or reasons that make no sense. A character who could make millions legitimately but won't because....mwa, ha, ha! is inherently silly and mockable character. You can't make a character like that not seem totally ridiculous unless you are willing to put something more than that.

[Huntsman Spider]

The problem is I think Wizard and Trapster are crap villains who are both one-dimensional and have no business taking on the FF, a team that takes on gods on a regular basis. Are guys like Trapster, Shocker and Wizard smart or are they just greedy idiots. Wizard seems like he would be thousands of times more dangerous if he kept a clean criminal record and used his wealth to shield himself from the law, instead, he is a public nuisance the FF can beat up and toss in jail at their leisure, why I am supposed to buy that this guy is a threat to the FF?


The problem is the type of villain you are talking about has been parodied so often, Wizard may as well be akin to Dr. Evil from Austin Powers or Dr. Draken from Kim Possible, a supposed smart villain who could likely make millions or even billions legitimately but won't for no good reason or reasons that make no sense. A character who could make millions legitimately but won't because....mwa, ha, ha! is inherently silly and mockable character. You can't make a character like that not seem totally ridiculous unless you are willing to put something more than that.

At least in Ultimate Spider-Man, it turned out Shocker would have made money legitimately from his inventions, but he was cheated by his corporate bosses, so he resorted to crime instead.

[Frontier]

At least in Ultimate Spider-Man, it turned out Shocker would have made money legitimately from his inventions, but he was cheated by his corporate bosses, so he resorted to crime instead.

I feel like Ultimate Shocker is a big reason people see Shocker as a joke now because Bendis treated him that way for 98% of the run.

The one time he's treated seriously it's the last time we ever see him.

[Huntsman Spider]

I feel like Ultimate Shocker is a big reason people see Shocker as a joke now because Bendis treated him that way for 98% of the run.

The one time he's treated seriously it's the last time we ever see him.

That was a big part of the problem with Ultimate Marvel, overall. While the heroes might not have been anything to write home about, Spider-Men excepted, the villains were largely written as either complete jokes or utterly irredeemable monsters, no real in-between.

[Chris0013]

All villains should be serious.

[PCN24454]

That was a big part of the problem with Ultimate Marvel, overall. While the heroes might not have been anything to write home about, Spider-Men excepted, the villains were largely written as either complete jokes or utterly irredeemable monsters, no real in-between.

I feel like that’s the consequence of focusing “main plot”. Most supervillains are only conceived to be MOTW. They aren’t really meant to be “main antagonists” or masterminds. This makes them look weaker and less important than they actually are.

[Mister Mets]

I gotta admit I'm always partial to the 'punching bag' villain. It's a really fun trope. That pathetic bad guy that, can seriously hurt people when he tries, but is also just so inept that you can't help but feel bad for him. Spidey doesn't even call him Shocker most of the time. He just calls him Herman, which is so embarrassing. Imagine putting all that time and effort into a costume, theme, and then Spidey can't even stick to it when he mocks you. That's gotta hurt.

So for my money, I hope he stays the loser he is. Every supe needs a punching bag villain every no and then for a lower stakes moment. A cool down from all the crossovers and world ending demon invasions.

Sometimes you just want a familiar face to punch, ya know?

Nobody? Just me? Okay...

I agree.

Though it may be better to use new villains, rather than demean a classic. The main alternative would be if you're setting up an upgrade for an underappreciated classic.

But it could be fun to show a new villain out of their league.

Or a new villain who doesn't mind being a punching bag because it helps their kudos. "Hey Spider-Man, since you beat me up again, I'm officially in your rogues gallery, right?"

Or if they have some ulterior motive.

[The Overlord]

All villains should be serious.

Even White Rabbit and the Walrus? Some villains are just meant to be silly.