The Cat is OFFICIALLY out of the bag now (ASM Spoilers)

[Huntsman Spider]

why would Kamala work when Peter can't?

Let's be honest here. The optics of killing off Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel are the absolute worst at this time, given the ongoing tensions around greater representation and incorporation in the superhero genre of people and groups that aren't typically included as main or important characters in mainstream superhero stories. The idea that, in spite of what Kamala represents to a lot of fans and readers who have seen her as an inspirational symbol, she can still be killed off in a book belonging to a more prominent hero with a long-established legacy and pedigree will likely not sit well with a good number of people.

[Spider-Tiger]

why would Kamala work when Peter can't?

- A popular female teen hero
- One of Marvel's only Muslim heroes
- In a title that's not even her own.
- To service the story of a superhero that she barely has a relationship with
- who also happens to be a white male
- And also happens to occur during Asian-American heritage month

It's just a really risky move and really dumb move no matter which way you slice it. In this socio-political climate in the US. You could literally kill any other character in the book, piss people off, drum up controversy, and you wouldn't risk losing your own head.

[bob.schoonover]

I don't think this is about Peter and MJ. I think this is about Kamala. This kind of heat could absolutely lead to people losing their jobs. What happens to Peter and MJ after that if the current people are gone is a question for another day.

This seems unlikely - if this is about repositioning Kamala as a mutant (via resurrection protocol) in the fall (just to pick a time), then that was a decision made up high with full knowledge that it would cause a stir in the moment. Lowe and Wells were being good soldiers*, whoever decided that ASM was the vehicle for her death will have the "wait until she comes back before you make a decision" line or perhaps "aligning the MCU and comics is a corporate mandate", and anyone in between will have one or the other excuse. Not only that, FOC for this issue has already passed, so the sales have already been locked in, and I'm betting they're (artificially) very high. I would be a little surprised if we see a firing.

Separately, Lowe has been the editor for quite awhile, and it wouldn't be shocking if he decided to move on to something else before Wells' run ended - let a new editor come in with an established creative team and a bit of time to figure out who to bring in next. People will read too much into it, just like when Wacker left to go over to animation.

*Given various things Dan Slott has said about how balancing artists works with the 2x monthly books, odds are there is at least *some* art being produced right now as far out as 31 or so, probably further out. Firing either Wells or Lowe would have no practical effect for a number of months after the firing

[Kevinroc]

This seems unlikely - if this is about repositioning Kamala as a mutant (via resurrection protocol) in the fall (just to pick a time), then that was a decision made up high with full knowledge that it would cause a stir in the moment. Lowe and Wells were being good soldiers*, whoever decided that ASM was the vehicle for her death will have the "wait until she comes back before you make a decision" line or perhaps "aligning the MCU and comics is a corporate mandate", and anyone in between will have one or the other excuse. Not only that, FOC for this issue has already passed, so the sales have already been locked in, and I'm betting they're (artificially) very high. I would be a little surprised if we see a firing.

Separately, Lowe has been the editor for quite awhile, and it wouldn't be shocking if he decided to move on to something else before Wells' run ended - let a new editor come in with an established creative team and a bit of time to figure out who to bring in next. People will read too much into it, just like when Wacker left to go over to animation.

*Given various things Dan Slott has said about how balancing artists works with the 2x monthly books, odds are there is at least *some* art being produced right now as far out as 31 or so, probably further out. Firing either Wells or Lowe would have no practical effect for a number of months after the firing

People taking the fall has happened before. The question is if it will happen here.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Let's be honest here. The optics of killing off Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel are the absolute worst at this time, given the ongoing tensions around greater representation and incorporation in the superhero genre of people and groups that aren't typically included as main or important characters in mainstream superhero stories. The idea that, in spite of what Kamala represents to a lot of fans and readers who have seen her as an inspirational symbol, she can still be killed off in a book belonging to a more prominent hero with a long-established legacy and pedigree will likely not sit well with a good number of people.

It's even worse. It looks like they did it to cause Peter more man-pain, lol.

I've been laughing all day at this. I couldn't have predicted it this morning. It's insane.

I said they didn't have the balls to fridge MJ (which would still be bad but not as insanely bad as this, lol).

[Spider-Tiger]

[B]This seems unlikely - if this is about repositioning Kamala as a mutant (via resurrection protocol) in the fall (just to pick a time), then that was a decision made up high with full knowledge that it would cause a stir in the moment. Lowe and Wells were being good soldiers*, whoever decided that ASM was the vehicle for her death will have the "wait until she comes back before you make a decision" line or perhaps "aligning the MCU and comics is a corporate mandate", and anyone in between will have one or the other excuse. Not only that, FOC for this issue has already passed, so the sales have already been locked in, and I'm betting they're (artificially) very high. I would be a little surprised if we see a firing.

Separately, Lowe has been the editor for quite awhile, and it wouldn't be shocking if he decided to move on to something else before Wells' run ended - let a new editor come in with an established creative team and a bit of time to figure out who to bring in next. People will read too much into it, just like when Wacker left to go over to animation.

*Given various things Dan Slott has said about how balancing artists works with the 2x monthly books, odds are there is at least *some* art being produced right now as far out as 31 or so, probably further out. Firing either Wells or Lowe would have no practical effect for a number of months after the firing

I don't think this is a question of whatever the ultimate plan is/was, but the manner in which it has been carried out. Surely, there are other ways to reposition Kamala as a mutant that don't involve fridging the character (even temporarily) in such a potentially insensitive/offensive way. Whoever's idea it was, it wasn't thought out very well.

[CaptainUniverse]

It's even worse. It looks like they did it to cause Peter more man-pain, lol.

I've been laughing all day at this. I couldn't have predicted it this morning. It's insane.

I said they didn't have the balls to fridge MJ (which would still be bad but not as insanely bad as this, lol).

I wish I could be a fly on the wall at Marvel today. There must be some interesting conversations going on right now.

[Grapeweasel]

I wonder what Mephisto will ask for this time....

[Kurolegacy]

Oh, we are WAY past Peter and MJ here, lol. Kevinroc is right.

Lowe and Wells fridged Kamala ****ing Khan in 2023. That's worse than fridging MJ. And ComicsGate people are using it as fuel (part of why it's worse).

Even if she returns in a few months, it doesn't change the fact that this happened. It's absolutely something they can get fired over.

Wouldn’t say it’s something that could get them fired but it is an especially tone deaf thing to pull in Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month.

[bob.schoonover]

People taking the fall has happened before. The question is if it will happen here.

I'm going to be a little pedantic here, but the fall for what, specifically? I've seen a few people throw around a number of loaded terms, but dying a heroic death (a presumption on my part, I know) is part and parcel to being a hero in the Marvel Universe (for that matter, dying a somewhat mundane death is pretty common, too). And almost commonplace for a mutant (which many, including me, assume is the endgame here). People being mad on the Internet is not sufficient for firing an editor at Marvel (even if it's a lot of people, and they're justified because it's bad storytelling). Do you think Kamala's death, specifically, will lead to a sales slump for ASM? Do you think if there's an October Fall of X special in which Kamala is resurrected that it will sell poorly? Will this affect the already somewhat troubling-sounding Marvels movie? I would bet "No" for sure on the last two, and the first one would be hard to parse out.

Let me be clear, this sounds like a bad story (I called it shared-universe malpractice elsewhere) and I'm not spending money on it, but I think it's overly optimistic to assume that there will be long-term ramifications IF this death is part of long-term plan across editorial departments to reposition Kamala.

I don't think this is a question of whatever the ultimate plan is/was, but the manner in which it has been carried out. Surely, there are other ways to reposition Kamala as a mutant that don't involve fridging the character (even temporarily) in such a potentially insensitive/offensive way. Whoever's idea it was, it wasn't thought out very well.

I don't think "fridging" is appropriate phraseology until we've read the story. Dying a heroic death which causes people (in-universe) to be sad is wildly different than "killed for the sole purpose of advancing the hero's story" - I don't think people considered Cap's death a fridging (the Brubaker one, I know he's died a few times), even if it existed mostly to advance Bucky's story. Now, I'm happy to revisit this if Kamala dies incidentally to the action, but I'm willing to bet she's vital to either defeating Rabin or saving MJ or the kids

[CaptainUniverse]

I wonder what Mephisto will ask for this time....

Everything. It will cost them everything!

[Jman27]

I wonder what Mephisto will ask for this time....

funny thing is he already save kamala

[Kevinroc]

I'm going to be a little pedantic here, but the fall for what, specifically? I've seen a few people throw around a number of loaded terms, but dying a heroic death (a presumption on my part, I know) is part and parcel to being a hero in the Marvel Universe (for that matter, dying a somewhat mundane death is pretty common, too). And almost commonplace for a mutant (which many, including me, assume is the endgame here). People being mad on the Internet is not sufficient for firing an editor at Marvel (even if it's a lot of people, and they're justified because it's bad storytelling). Do you think Kamala's death, specifically, will lead to a sales slump for ASM? Do you think if there's an October Fall of X special in which Kamala is resurrected that it will sell poorly? Will this affect the already somewhat troubling-sounding Marvels movie? I would bet "No" for sure on the last two, and the first one would be hard to parse out.

Let me be clear, this sounds like a bad story (I called it shared-universe malpractice elsewhere) and I'm not spending money on it, but I think it's overly optimistic to assume that there will be long-term ramifications IF this death is part of long-term plan across editorial departments to reposition Kamala.

I can't predict the future so I can't say what will happen next. All I'm saying is what could happen next. But of course it's very possible that nothing happens and everything keeps chugging along as it has been.

[Spider-Tiger]

I don't think "fridging" is appropriate phraseology until we've read the story. Dying a heroic death which causes people (in-universe) to be sad is wildly different than "killed for the sole purpose of advancing the hero's story" - I don't think people considered Cap's death a fridging (the Brubaker one, I know he's died a few times), even if it existed mostly to advance Bucky's story. Now, I'm happy to revisit this if Kamala dies incidentally to the action, but I'm willing to bet she's vital to either defeating Rabin or saving MJ or the kids

The problem is, from what I understand, she hasn't been particularly vital to the story or the book thus far. It this arc was centered around Kamala, you'd have a point. But she's a minor supporting character here. So even if they tack on a "heroic" death, I think "fridge" is a pretty apt description- since this story development seems marketed to service Peter's story. Peter is the one mourning on his knees on that cover and cradling her dead body like he cradled Gwen's. It's happening in Peter's book. Which is again, why I think this whole thing was pretty ill-conceived.

[Inversed]

No matter what angle you try to look at, this doesn't come off good for anyone, even beyond just the "in bad taste" of killing her off in the first place, this is just poor story telling. If this was an editorial mandate, then this essentially validates every criticism beforehand that this entire run has been mandated. If this was Wells' idea, then it is incredibly bad story writing to torpedo the conclusion to your year-long plot just to kill off your guest star in place of your red herring.

If you wanted to tell a "Death And Rebirth of Ms. Marvel" story so that you can turn her into a mutant for synergy, don't you think it'd be more impactful to, y'know, actually tell that story? Give her a more personal emotional connection with her actual supporting cast? Or at the very least, make her a more prominent character in this book so they have some kind of relationship beforehand.

I honestly think this is a case of letting their rage-clickers get the better of them. "They'll get mad at us no matter what, so we can do whatever", betraying everyone who actually are invested in the story by deflating it just for the sake of a cheap rise that you'll quickly move on from since you have more arcs that have nothing to do with her, and when she does come back almost certainly is not going to be part of the cast again.

Also, when you've reached the point that the only people happy about this are Comicsgaters...then you KNOW you've screwed up badly.