The Cat is OFFICIALLY out of the bag now (ASM Spoilers)

[Spider-Tiger]

I'm a bit surprised that people want to believe this is a "love conquers all" story or that they're so certain someone would fix this. Don't get me wrong, I wish to believe it too, but I'm sure some thought that after OMD as well. Oh this won't last for long, someone will fix this sooner or later, they will never let Spider-Man sell his marriage to the devil. Here we are, almost as long as the time the character was married and not only they never fixed it, they keep doubling down on it with insulting garbage like the current run.

We're all aware that even if someone does fix Wells' mess, eventually someone else will just do something worse. Besides making MJ a superhero means she will be distanced even further from Peter in the process. They're not doing this to somehow reconnect her to Peter since she will now have a better understanding of his superhero life or whatever, they're doing this to further disconnect her from him. Wells was at least right regarding Peter never getting a last story and his relationship with MJ going in circles, since every "circle" keeps digging that relationship deeper. So what are these hopes that people keep trying to hold onto. What state do fans think the Spider-Man franchise will be 5 years from now. You'll just have a different writer with a similar status quo.

I don't know. I don't think this run is going to suddenly turn around with some "love conquers all" shtick. But I'm also optimistic that we could get some better runs in the future with the Peter-MJ relationship, and some poor runs, and so on and so forth.

I think people need to realize that 616 continuity, especially in the Spider-man corner, is just a facade. It's practically nonexistent at this point. Pick up the runs/story-arcs you enjoy and skip the runs you don't. Don't support poor quality.

[Astroman]

I think people need to realize that 616 continuity, especially in the Spider-man corner, is just a facade. It's practically nonexistent at this point. Pick up the runs/story-arcs you enjoy and skip the runs you don't. Don't support poor quality.

Great advice!

[Majesty]

I'm a bit surprised that people want to believe this is a "love conquers all" story or that they're so certain someone would fix this. Don't get me wrong, I wish to believe it too, but I'm sure some thought that after OMD as well. Oh this won't last for long, someone will fix this sooner or later, they will never let Spider-Man sell his marriage to the devil. Here we are, almost as long as the time the character was married and not only they never fixed it, they keep doubling down on it with insulting garbage like the current run.

We're all aware that even if someone does fix Wells' mess, eventually someone else will just do something worse. Besides making MJ a superhero means she will be distanced even further from Peter in the process. They're not doing this to somehow reconnect her to Peter since she will now have a better understanding of his superhero life or whatever, they're doing this to further disconnect her from him. Wells was at least right regarding Peter never getting a last story and his relationship with MJ going in circles, since every "circle" keeps digging that relationship deeper. So what are these hopes that people keep trying to hold onto. What state do fans think the Spider-Man franchise will be 5 years from now. You'll just have a different writer with a similar status quo.

Here's a challenge for MARVEL.

Commit to Peter and Felicia for the next 5 years and Mary Jane as a Superhero for the next 5 years. Actually do things with them that shows what a viable and great alternatives to the usual status quo they wanted to avoid.

Then after those 5 years when fans rally around that and start asking for Peter and Felicia to get married instead. Cross you arms and ask MARVEL what they intend to do now

[Chris0013]

Has it been suggested yet that this is all a diversion? They put out 'leaks' saying it is Kamala...even having some pages made showing it...but it will be someone else who actually gets it in the comic.

[Xenon]

I'm a bit surprised that people want to believe this is a "love conquers all" story or that they're so certain someone would fix this. Don't get me wrong, I wish to believe it too, but I'm sure some thought that after OMD as well. Oh this won't last for long, someone will fix this sooner or later, they will never let Spider-Man sell his marriage to the devil. Here we are, almost as long as the time the character was married and not only they never fixed it, they keep doubling down on it with insulting garbage like the current run.

We're all aware that even if someone does fix Wells' mess, eventually someone else will just do something worse. Besides making MJ a superhero means she will be distanced even further from Peter in the process. They're not doing this to somehow reconnect her to Peter since she will now have a better understanding of his superhero life or whatever, they're doing this to further disconnect her from him. Wells was at least right regarding Peter never getting a last story and his relationship with MJ going in circles, since every "circle" keeps digging that relationship deeper. So what are these hopes that people keep trying to hold onto. What state do fans think the Spider-Man franchise will be 5 years from now. You'll just have a different writer with a similar status quo.

Thee are three principles that guide my hope. One, writers want to write good stories. Sometimes they fail. Sometimes they think they have a good idea and then realize they were wrong. Sometimes they just do a bad job and insist they didn't. Sometimes powers out of their control force their hand. Fine, whatever. But they WANT to do a good job. They WANT to be well received. DAn Slott doesn't jump into random twitter threads to troll people who don't like his book because he doesn't care what people think. He cares probably too much in his case. But usually when they write a bad story they know it. I don't know what Wells is. But he's been competent before. And even if he's not, people will come on the book that are. And everyone realizes OMD is a bad story. Even Wells doesn't pretend its a good story, he just pretends (at least publically) it was a necessary evil to get where they needed to be, and he was a BND writer, so he's deeply connected to the post-OMD status quo. And it's not just that OMD is a bad story, it's that what it sets up is pointless (Peter dating doesn't mean anything) and creates a loose end where Peter must marry Mary Jane or the devil wins, and you can't write a superhero comic where the devil wins (I mean, yeah, OMD, but that's why its bad). Everyone knows we're wasting time and they should be back together. You gain nothing good from it. So yeah, I always think they could be pushing in that direction because story logic pushes in that direction. It's somewhat astounding they've lasted this long, but I attribute a lot of that to Slott's run being so long you havne't had the sort of new blood that don't have those prideful connections.

The second thing is that, as we've discussed before, if they wanted to make MJ not viable they could make her not viable really easy. They have total control (this story proves that). If this was really just about trolling the fans and sending her away, issue one would have ended with her telling Paul they're going to **** after they put the kids to bed. Issue 25 would have shown them ****ing or the aftermath. The hospital scene would have had her explicitly and full throatily tell Peter that she doesn't love him anymore. As bad as this is, if this was really just about flipping the bird to the fans, it would be so much worse. We know it would because they've done it before. They did it in Red-headed Stranger. They didn't go sexual but Slott flipped the bird to the fans in the first issue of Big Time with the for a time infamous laughing scene. If that's all this was, about driving a wedge between the pair, there are bigger wedges.

And the last thing is, of course, the Spencer run. THe whole point of OMD was to split up Peter and Mary Jane. If they were insistent it stick around, they wouldn't have let Sepncer put them back together. If they weren't willing to eventually undo it, they wouldn't have let him throw in the bit with Strange and Mephisto (the story was already oversized they could have just cut the pages). AS disappointing as this run is, as bad as it makes me feel, the reality is that even internally OMD might be on the chopping block.

So yeah, i have full confidence someone will fix this eventually because story logic demands it. I have some hope this story is just more inept than hateful. There's just no reason to do a lot of the things they've done otherwise. I'll point again to ASM9. If the point was to tell the fans to move on that scene doesn't get written that way. I know, that's the only scene they're that explicit, but it's not like MJ has been all over the book. And one of her few scenes is very clearly indicating that she's not happy about the situation. What exactly we don't know. and the devil can still be in the details, but that scene points one direction. As does all the things we haven't been shown. All the logic points one direction. Adn everyttime you get them together you make it harder to write a good story pulling them apart. It does get deeper, but that's a good thing.

That said, why do I not have a ton of confidence? Well yeah, OMD happened. It proves they can absolutely ignore all story logic if they want to, at least if there's a mandate. And Wells was a BND writer, he absolutely could be stuck in the stubborn pride mode. And of course there's a danger that they recognize everything I say is true....but want to have them dance in a circle for a while longer. That wouldn't be great, but it also wouldn't be that terrible. I'm too burned by their past actions and this story itself to believe we're getting a good ending here. But I am hopeful enough to believe we might get a medium ending. Honestly for 26 I'm just expecting a punt which will be too annoying for me, I'll check out. but

I'll also say this. My most hopeful thought still doesn't place them married until #1000. Big annivesary issue, big highly requested story. Less hopeful versions mean only OMD gets dealt with there. But even in that super hopeful version, that means they're likely going to **** with them until we get much closer. That might be all this is. But that's a very hopeful version.

EDIT: One more thing, I thought of this midway but then forgot to put it in. One reason part of me believe that OMD's time is numbered even within Marvel is the side books they're putting out. Now, obviously RYV was a thing during Slott's era, but this feels...a little different. Both the Zdarsky miniseries hav ea strong emphasis on Mary Jane and his love for her. Lost Hunt is a continuation where they just openly say "he was married then, but time shenangans means he wasn't married then now" and he's married in the story. Now, maybe in Life Story you let it through on the basis that MJ is his ultimate goal (though it's worth pointing out that's not something they would admit ten years ago). Ok. But Spider's Shadow was about his time in the black suit, when he was with Black Cat. You don't need to push MJ in that story. Lost Hunt is exactly the sort of retroactive continuity story where you would enforce that they're just living together. And yet, these things come out and they're either pushing MJ or he's just married to her. THat's a LONG way from where we were in 2009 when Spider-Man was about "Youth" (always laughable) and being a swinging single. The simple truth is that this is not the same editorial that put BND in place.

Here's a challenge for MARVEL.

Commit to Peter and Felicia for the next 5 years and Mary Jane as a Superhero for the next 5 years. Actually do things with them that shows what a viable and great alternatives to the usual status quo they wanted to avoid.

Then after those 5 years when fans rally around that and start asking for Peter and Felicia to get married instead. Cross you arms and ask MARVEL what they intend to do now

I mean that's not going to happen , put simply. Peter and MJ isn't a matter of shipping, it's a matter of canon and respecting that canon.

[Xenon]

Has it been suggested yet that this is all a diversion? They put out 'leaks' saying it is Kamala...even having some pages made showing it...but it will be someone else who actually gets it in the comic.

I considered that until the EW story came out. EXTREMELY unlikely they make a business deal that would make their partner look like a dupe. Also there's the Fallen Friend and classified mini that are being solicited.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, any chance of it being fake evaporated once it was officially revealed.

[Astroman]

Screenrant is now getting on the bandwagon...

https://screenrant.com/wrong-charact...l-death-cover/

and Bleeding Cool has more, *possible*, info on the leaking...
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/how-...oilers-leaked/

[Xenon]

Screenrant is now getting on the bandwagon...

https://screenrant.com/wrong-charact...l-death-cover/

and Bleeding Cool has more, *possible*, info on the leaking...
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/how-...oilers-leaked/

It's one of the worst covers I've ever seen.

The BC article is interesting. When they leaked those two pages I was hoping for more so I could get the answers I actually cared about and why Mary Jane was still hugging Paul. But apparently both the leaker and his source don't care about the Spider-Man part and the focus is entirely on Kamala's death. Which is fair, but still interesting. Also interesting is that his source is within Marvel, and I always appreciate internal strife when they're doing dumb thnigs. They're more likely to listen to their coworkers than us plebs.

[Digifiend]

That article makes one goof - they forgot that Iron Man also has a close connection to Ms. Marvel, they were on the Avengers together and he's basically her second mentor. He and Carol have legit reasons to be there. The others don't, they're right about that. Wolverine was her first team-up, but they've barely interacted since. She's never worked with the Fantastic Four so Thing is out of place. Those two should've been replaced by Miles and either Nova or Viv. It's the wrong Captain America as well, Sam was on her Avengers team, not Steve. Miles is the only Champion Steve has any close link to.

[Sr. Bungle]

That article makes one goof - they forgot that Iron Man also has a close connection to Ms. Marvel, they were on the Avengers together and he's basically her second mentor. He and Carol have legit reasons to be there. The others don't, they're right about that. Wolverine was her first team-up, but they've barely interacted since. She's never worked with the Fantastic Four so Thing is out of place. Those two should've been replaced by Miles and either Nova or Viv. It's the wrong Captain America as well, Sam was on her Avengers team, not Steve. Miles is the only Champion Steve has any close link to.

Cyclops shoul be there if there was the need to have an X-Man

[Huntsman Spider]

Cyclops shoul be there if there was the need to have an X-Man

Oh, definitely, since his past self was a Champion and his current adult self still looked on that time very fondly, as it was one of the few times in his life he got to just be a kid and be with friends without having an entire race's future depending on his leadership, which was what made him so stoic and emotionally unavailable with the X-Men.

[Digifiend]

He wasn't even leading the time displaced O5 back then either. Beast (All-New X-Men) and Jean (X-Men Blue) were leaders instead. Of course it was when Blue started that he learned he was indeed from the past and not an alternate universe and would need to go back. That's why he left the Champions at the end of Waid's run, though he could've stayed until the relaunch midway through Zub's run as Blue actually lasted that long!

[ARkadelphia]

The cover is meant to show the characters that appear in the issue. It’s not some meta commentary on the people who have shaped Kamala’s life.

[WebLurker]

The cover is meant to show the characters that appear in the issue. It’s not some meta commentary on the people who have shaped Kamala’s life.

Still, the point that the characters being featured aren't ones that were that relevant to her is a sign just how effed up this all is.