Who agrees? Carol back as Ms. Marvel and Kamala with new original title

[KurtW95]

It's PURE BS because what is a legit reason to take that title from her?

And what was the legit reason to take the Ms. title from her? You think it's perfectly fine to take Carol's title to give it to Kamala, but you think it's crazy to take her new title (which wasn't hers) and give it to Mar-Vell or retire it and give her back her original name. There is no logic there unless you think somehow that Ms. is worse than Captain or a bad name she shouldn't be using, which then makes me wonder why you think it's fine if Kamala uses it. There are loads of characters more famous than other characters. If comics were to make it a more common practice to give them what you'd consider promotions, it would get super confusing. Never mind the fact that it's wildly unnecessary.

Just to bring back the male version because some folks are offended by Carol Danvers?

Change her name-Marvel is NOT going to get rid of her to pander to edgelords and gators.

It's not going to remove her from Avengers.

It's not going to STOP her from getting solos.

It's not going to STOP anything Marvel does with her.


Put a male in that role and guess what?

NOBODY including those screaming for it will support the book.

Marvel is NOT interested in fighting some uphill battle for that guy to even SNIFF where Carol is.

And he will be forever known as the guy that got Carol removed. So you will have a faction that will NOT bother with him.

Thus defeating the purpose.

You are projecting a lot. I never argued that I don't think Carol should have the Captain name because she's a woman. I never argued that I want Carol not to be on the Avengers or to stop her from getting solos or to be removed as you say. On the contrary, I would love her on the Avengers as Ms. Marvel. I have no problem with a woman with a hero name with Captain. You're the one who even brought that up. I just don't think Carol should be Captain Marvel and I think she ought to have the name she originated. Turning her into the fifth Captain Marvel strips her of her uniqueness and value before she took the name. And maybe people like Mar-Vell and would like to see him back too. You ever think of that? But back to your straw man about woman Captains. If Kamala or any new character is given a name with Captain in the title and there's another second word, I'm not bothered in the slightest. Because my argument was never misogynistic or about culture wars or whatever. You want to make it about that because it dismisses what I'm saying.

[Agent Z]

And what was the legit reason to take the Ms. title from her? You think it's perfectly fine to take Carol's title to give it to Kamala, but you think it's crazy to take her new title (which wasn't hers) and give it to Mar-Vell or retire it and give her back her original name. There is no logic there unless you think somehow that Ms. is worse than Captain or a bad name she shouldn't be using, which then makes me wonder why you think it's fine if Kamala uses it. There are loads of characters more famous than other characters. If comics were to make it a more common practice to give them what you'd consider promotions, it would get super confusing. Never mind the fact that it's wildly unnecessary.

No one is saying that using "Ms." is insulting nor are they saying that the legacy promotion approach should be done all the time. But it clearly worked with Carol and there is no reason to undo it.

Turning her into the fifth Captain Marvel strips her of her uniqueness and value before she took the name.

What uniqueness? As Ms. Marvel she was just a female variation of Mar-Vell.

And maybe people like Mar-Vell and would like to see him back too. You ever think of that?

If it's just about having Mar-Vell back, why do you care if he has the Captain Marvel name or not?

[KurtW95]

No one is saying that using "Ms." is insulting nor are they saying that the legacy promotion approach should be done all the time. But it clearly worked with Carol and there is no reason to undo it.

I disagree that it worked. And there was no reason to do it in the first place. Not counting the number one issues from the first movie's release and first trailer, Brian Reed's sales have still not been beaten in any way that shows that change helped.

What uniqueness? As Ms. Marvel she was just a female variation of Mar-Vell.

Their characters are indeed connected, but her origin and character is very different from Mar-Vell. And the name was unique in the sense that no character had used the name Ms. Marvel.

If it's just about having Mar-Vell back, why do you care if he has the Captain Marvel name or not?

Because it was his name at Marvel Comics. And he should be the default character to have it. Can there be other characters who call themselves Captain Marvel at Marvel? I guess. But Carol should not be one of them. As she was already the default Ms. Marvel. If you want to have Sharon Ventura be a secondary version called Ms. Marvel in the West Coast Avengers, you can certainly do that, but it still might be smarter to find another. But Carol should be the default Ms. Marvel and if you want Kamala to be the default of any name, it should be one that's new. But it's a downgrade to turn characters into legacy characters if they have already become successful in their own right. And it is pure rewriting of history to act like Carol wasn't popular and well-liked until the past ten years. Again, I really do think that if her MCU counterpart were more like the version we had until the relaunch, she would be more popular and her products would be more successful.

[Thundershot]

No.


If for no other reasoning.. marketing. Marvel has wanted their own “Wonder Woman” for a long time now (a prominent female hero) and Carol is that person. She’s already got the branding and marketing, so it’s gonna likely stay that way.

[The Negative Zone]

If Kamala is too derivative of a character and needs her own identity then clearly Carol should have her own superhero name so we stop diluting the brand of Captain Mar-vell, yeah you know the dead guy that doesn't have many fans anymore.

Okay now that I'm done being sarcastic
1. Captain sounds a lot cooler than Ms.
2. The original costume I think was more memorable but I do like the colors on the new costume best. Why can't superheroes just switch costumes every so often and it not be a big deal?

[Kingdom X]

Yes 100%. Why don't you think so?

Are you able to provide concrete reasoning and evidence that Carol’s solo movie would have been more of financial success if she went by Ms. Marvel? Nothing that has to do with your own personal tastes and the comics you grew up with but OBJECTIVE reasons why you think we should all get on board with your idea.

Like it’s fine if you miss the original Captain Marvel. No one can take away the stories you loved. But your need to prove that everyone who has enjoyed Carol in the role for the last 10+ years is wrong (when Mar-Vell was already long dead) is not making sense to me.

[ed2962]

There's no real reason to change either Carol's or Karmala's current code names other than nostalgia. Having said that, I wouldn't mind checking out a "The Untold Tales of Mar-Vell" book with the right creative team.

[mugiwara]

There's no real reason to change either Carol's or Karmala's current code names other than nostalgia. Having said that, I wouldn't mind checking out a "The Untold Tales of Mar-Vell" book with the right creative team.

The current Groot mini series features a young Mar-Vell and is written by Dan Abnett

[KurtW95]

There's no real reason to change either Carol's or Karmala's current code names other than nostalgia.

Not nostalgia. Mar-Vell died before I was born and I want him back as Captain Marvel.

[The Cool Thatguy]

No.


If for no other reasoning.. marketing. Marvel has wanted their own “Wonder Woman” for a long time now (a prominent female hero) and Carol is that person. She’s already got the branding and marketing, so it’s gonna likely stay that way.

IMO, Marvel still lacks their own Wonder Woman.

Carol still owes her origin to Mar-Vell, even if he's been dead for 4 decades, and much of her mythos.

It's baffling that here we are in the 2020s, and there's no female super strong heavy hitter with her own origin that doesn't depend on a male superhero

[Shadowedeyes]

Ultimately, there is little for Marvel to gain by going this route. Pretty much every appearance of Carol outside of the comics has been as Captain Marvel, with the exception of EMH and a cameo in the 90s X-Men cartoon. The biggest one being her movie, which did well. Reverting her back to Ms. Marvel is unlikely to do any better, and could potentially do even worse. On top of that, they also loose all branding they've done with Kamala by doing this, and now have to figure out a whole new identity for her as well.

And all this so they can bring back Mar-Vell? it's not like he was ever a huge sales driver, even back in the day when comics tended to do way better. His biggest story is about how he died, and bringing him back undercuts that. I can think of, what, two rogues of his off the top of my head, and Thanos has long since moved on from being a Captain Marvel villain. There is some story potential in him meeting and connecting with his kids, but is that enough to justify bringing him back?

Also, I think we can't deny that the optics of doing so could be tricky. Whether you think Ms. Marvel as a title has the the same cache as Captain Marvel, there are going to be people who fear it will be a downgrade for Carol, and an excuse to push her to the side to focus on this guy who has been dead for decades now. I just don't see the reward outweighing the risks for Marvel in this.

[ed2962]

Not nostalgia. Mar-Vell died before I was born and I want him back as Captain Marvel.

But based on what other than personal preference and knowledge that he was Marvel's first Capt Marvel? I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring him over the other folks who have used the name. It's just that there's no practical reason for Marvel as a company to make the changes suggested.

[skyvolt2000]

Carol still owes her origin to Mar-Vell, even if he's been dead for 4 decades, and much of her mythos.

It's baffling that here we are in the 2020s, and there's no female super strong heavy hitter with her own origin that doesn't depend on a male superhero

So does Hal Jordan yet there is NOBODY saying he needs a new name so Abin Sur can get his ring back. Although some would if John Stewart was removed more than the other 9 Earth Lanterns.
Oh lets NOT forget Dick Grayson. How about he gives up being Nightwing since SUPERMAN went by that name for a time. Along with Jimmy Olsen as Flamebird.
Or Jason Todd needs to give Red Hood title back to the Joker. Who held it first.
Or Paula Brooks who was Huntress before Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli. Helena Bertinelli is DEAD too and the one who held a solo series.

Yet no one is calling for these folks to get new names.

It's just that there's no practical reason for Marvel as a company to make the changes suggested.

A reason was given to you.

I want him back as Captain Marvel.

And in reality that is all it takes is for Marvel to hire that one writer that wants that.
And as we have seen when that happens to franchises-see Flash, Firestorm, Batgirl, Black Panther & Green Lantern.

How did Barry coming back benefit Wally West who got not just his wife, kids but himself ERASED form history for 10 years. Replaced by an offensive stereotype.
Cassandra Cain being deemed TOXIC and erased from book including KIDS BOOKS.
Jason Rusch-who outside of a Christmas story has been MIA at DC for now 7 years.
8 years of T'Challa bashing because Marvel can't stop hiring writers who HATE T'Challa.

[Agent Z]

IMO, Marvel still lacks their own Wonder Woman.

Carol still owes her origin to Mar-Vell, even if he's been dead for 4 decades, and much of her mythos.

It's baffling that here we are in the 2020s, and there's no female super strong heavy hitter with her own origin that doesn't depend on a male superhero

I think Monica Rambeau would qualify. Her story doesn't really need Spider-Man and can easily be adapted to exclude him and she has a very strong powerset.

So does Hal Jordan yet there is NOBODY saying he needs a new name so Abin Sur can get his ring back.

I think he means having a male hero who wasn't the main protagonist first. Abin Sur was just part of Hal's origin story but Hal was established as the lead character first.

[Username taken]

To Skyvolt's point, it would be like saying Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are derivative characters because Alan Scott and Jay Garrick were before them. One certainly can make the argument that Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are derivatives but ultimately, no one is clamoring for the originals to come back at the expense of their replacements.

DC has actually shown that both the originals and the "derivatives" can co-exist. Marvel has done it with Spider-man.

I don't mind Mar-vell coming back and being Captain Marvel and doing his own thing but not at Carol's expense. I also don't even mind Monica Rambeau being a Captain Marvel as well (when I first got into Avengers, she was using the name and leading the team). Like the first examples I mentioned, once progress has been established there's no point in reversing, an accommodation should be made if they want to bring back long dead characters.