Who agrees? Carol back as Ms. Marvel and Kamala with new original title

[Dipter]

Rename Carol Mistress Marvel. Boom! Problem solved.

[Anthony W]

The whole thing is very *FETCH* as they say

The irony being that unlike Captain Marvel "FETCH" is much closer to eventually making its way into our pop culture conscious.

[ed2962]

"Ms" is not offensive or anything, but it's not particularly empowering and might sound condescending especially on older women. Kamala is a teenager/young adult and a more lighthearted character in general, so it fits her more.

Case in point: Her name on the MCU coming from her dad calling her "my little ms marvel".

"Ms" over the last several decades has been normalized so both younger and older women use it. But I'd say if you were to call a mature 40yr old woman "Miss",that might seem condescending.

[Anthony W]

The saddest thing about this comment is that I don't even think you realize how hard you contradicted yourself from the first half to the second. I'm not speaking into existence the fact that Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel has appeared in 2 of the highest grossing movies of all time, including one she headlined.

Have you ever been assigned to a group project let everyone else do the work and then put your name on the project at the end? That's Captain Marvel's movie career.

I'm not speaking into existence that Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel is wrapping up a 50-issue comic book run

Which still isn't her highest selling run. Care to guess which is? Spoiler Alert! The answer will make you angry.

and leading the flagship Avengers team right now.

The Avengers? A book whose whole gimmick is to have a few heavy hitters to get you to pick up the book and a few B-listers that the writer can play with? Guess which category Captain Marvel is in? Spoiler Alert! The answer will anger you.

You're putting what, exactly, up against that, to prove the character should regress in both title and costume? Nostalgia?

Like I said, it's basically a religion at this point. Maybe instead of The Carol Corps it should have been called The Carol Congregation? amirite?

[Alan2099]

Have you ever been assigned to a group project let everyone else do the work and then put your name on the project at the end? That's Captain Marvel's movie career.

That's pretty much been her superhero career as well.

[davetvs]

A bunch of embarrassing coping about the popularity of a fictional character

Whatever helps you sleep at night, babe. Like I said, men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

[Anthony W]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, babe. Like I said, men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

Give my regards to the rest of the Carol Congregation!

[Agent Z]

The whole thing is very *FETCH* as they say

The irony being that unlike Captain Marvel "FETCH" is much closer to eventually making its way into our pop culture conscious.

The only thing "fetch" is Carol haters who think the rest of the world hates her as much as they do.

[Agent Z]

Have you ever been assigned to a group project let everyone else do the work and then put your name on the project at the end? That's Captain Marvel's movie career.

Sure and Disney really did fake the Captain Marvel movie's ticket sales.

Which still isn't her highest selling run. Care to guess which is? Spoiler Alert! The answer will make you angry.

Know what else sold well? Civil War I, Krakoa Era X-Men and Zeb Wells' Spider-Man run.

High sales doesn't always mean what you think it does and frankly, I doubt the people who bought that book did it for the story.

The Avengers? A book whose whole gimmick is to have a few heavy hitters to get you to pick up the book and a few B-listers that the writer can play with? Guess which category Captain Marvel is in? Spoiler Alert! The answer will anger you.

I didn't know Iron Man and Captain America were b-listers.

Like I said, it's basically a religion at this point. Maybe instead of The Carol Corps it should have been called The Carol Congregation? amirite?

Kind of throwing stones in glass houses here.

[Digifiend]

Tony and Cap were B-listers before the MCU came along. The characters Marvel had sold the movie rights for were the more popular ones at the time - X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, Daredevil (there were some more niche ones too though, like Blade).

That's completely different.

There are multiple active Spider-man(s) at the moment. So, killing them off and handing them over to Kurt looks weird.

At the time, Marvel turned Carol to Captain Marvel, no one was using the name at the time (I could be mistaken though). When Kamala Khan became Ms. Marvel, no one was using the name at the time.

Not to mention Nightcrawler and Peter Parker aren't linked like the way Carol and Mar-vell were.

Yeah, Monica wasn't using a codename at the time (2012 - her most recent book had been Nextwave in around 2006), and became Spectrum a year later. Mar-Vell, Genis-Vell and Phyla-Vell were all dead, and the latter two had switched codenames (to Photon and Martyr) before their deaths. So Captain Marvel was vacant, hence Carol taking it. That freed up Ms. Marvel for Kamala to use when she got her powers (also in 2013). The other Ms. Marvels are She-Thing (changed her name when she got a copy of Ben Grimm's powers) and Moonstone (who used the name as a Dark Avenger, which was no longer a thing by then), neither were using the name by then. Genis has since been resurrected and Phyla is back as an AU version - both are also Captain Marvel.

[davetvs]

The only thing "fetch" is Carol haters who think the rest of the world hates her as much as they do.

It's such strange behavior. Anyone with half a brain can refute literally everything they say, with legitimate evidence, but they just keep trying. It's like the people who keep saying "The MCU is flopping and people are over it" as if we can't just go pull that Multiverse of Madness made $950M, Love & Thunder $760M, Wakanda Forever $860M, and GOTG 3 currently sitting at $550M after 2 weeks.

[marhawkman]

Tony and Cap were B-listers before the MCU came along. The characters Marvel had sold the movie rights for were the more popular ones at the time - X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, Daredevil (there were some more niche ones too though, like Blade).

Yeah, Monica wasn't using a codename at the time (2012 - her most recent book had been Nextwave in around 2006), and became Spectrum a year later. Mar-Vell, Genis-Vell and Phyla-Vell were all dead, and the latter two had switched codenames (to Photon and Martyr) before their deaths. So Captain Marvel was vacant, hence Carol taking it. That freed up Ms. Marvel for Kamala to use when she got her powers (also in 2013). The other Ms. Marvels are She-Thing (changed her name when she got a copy of Ben Grimm's powers) and Moonstone (who used the name as a Dark Avenger, which was no longer a thing by then), neither were using the name by then. Genis has since been resurrected and Phyla is back as an AU version - both are also Captain Marvel.

Funny you should mention Moonstone. Karla Sofen's tenure as a Marvel was preceded by acquiring the costume from Tsu-zana, who, despite dressing like Ms. Marvel, never stopped using the Ultra-girl codename.

[Ascended]

Not feeling the idea.

There's no world in which Carol goes back to "Ms." and it's anything other than regression. And with her larger media profile as big as it is now, it makes no sense to revert her from a business perspective. Granted, larger media success doesn't impact floppy sales, but it helps in other facets like merchandise and (to a point) trade sales.

I know some folks haven't enjoyed Carol's series since she became Captain and think changing the name back will somehow make the book better. But all it would look like is some sexist bullshit.

It's been over a decade since Carol took the moniker. It belongs to her and that isn't changing. And there's no reason to change it, nobody gains anything from the regression, not Carol as a character, not Marvel as a company, and the only fans who benefit are the ones who think a woman shouldn't be a "Captain."

And I don't see Kamala changing her name when she inevitably returns either. Again, she gains nothing from such a move.

[KurtW95]

Again, how is it progression to take someone else's name? And why would Captain be a promotion to Ms? Unless the talk about people having an issue with a woman using the title Captain is projection and the true misogyny lies in the thinking that a gender neutral title, that was in this case associated with a man, should be valued over one that only applies to women.

[PlatinumThorns]

There's no way Marvel's going to give up the "Captain Marvel" copyright as long as they can help it