Who agrees? Carol back as Ms. Marvel and Kamala with new original title

[MoneySpider]

"Ms" is not offensive or anything, but it's not particularly empowering and might sound condescending especially on older women. Kamala is a teenager/young adult and a more lighthearted character in general, so it fits her more.

Case in point: Her name on the MCU coming from her dad calling her "my little ms marvel".

"Ms" over the last several decades has been normalized so both younger and older women use it. But I'd say if you were to call a mature 40yr old woman "Miss",that might seem condescending.

Which to me is odd, since it seems like a lot of women have no problem referring to themselves and OTHER women as "girls." (I remember reading an online article some years ago where some women said they would be offended if they were called a "girl" at their job, but would NOT be offended if they were called a "girl" OUTSIDE of their job).

[cranger]

It was just a marketing move in response to the other publisher bringing back their character. Like it or hate it, there is no deeper meaning.

[Alan2099]

Which to me is odd, since it seems like a lot of women have no problem referring to themselves and OTHER women as "girls." (I remember reading an online article some years ago where some women said they would be offended if they were called a "girl" at their job, but would NOT be offended if they were called a "girl" OUTSIDE of their job).

Makes sense to me. Woman implies older and more mature, while girls is more youthful and energetic.
That's why you'll hear I am woman hear me roar, but girls just want to have fun.

It's not all that different from males. You don't go out to the bar with the men or catcha game with men. You go out and have a drink with the boys.

[KurtW95]

There's no way Marvel's going to give up the "Captain Marvel" copyright as long as they can help it

Alright. Bring back Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel.

[skyvolt2000]

Have you ever been assigned to a group project let everyone else do the work and then put your name on the project at the end? That's Captain Marvel's movie career.

Then wouldn't that train of thought also apply to

Dick Grayson since Nightwing was a name previously used?

Tim Drake? Who own the longest and most successful solo run as Robin?

Conner Kent? Who also had a long run as Superboy instead of Clark Kent?

Hal Jordan? John Stewart? Kyle? Guy? Jessica? Simon? Jo? Since we had a Green Lantern before all of them?

Same with Barry and Wally as Flash after Jay?

Jaime Reyes as Blue Beetle?

Cassandra Cain who did what Babs could NOT do prove Batgirl could sell as a solo?

Matrix Supergirl who SOLD unlike the original Kara that was killed off.


As for doing the work comment....

Who REALLY did it???

Mar-Vell 62 solo issues
Genis-Vell 25 solo issues

Carol Danvers 97 and counting....
Carol Danvers is doing that WORK.

Kamala has bypassed Carol's run as Ms Marvel
Tim Drake bypassed and still stands over the other Robins.

[skyvolt2000]

The copium use with Carol is at an all-time high. The smear campaign against the movie didn't work, so they've taken to trying to reinvent reality right in our faces. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

What is more successful than a BILLION DOLLAR GROSSING SOLO FILM? If Captain America was so successful, why did his sequels become group outings?

Along with why did some folks have more interested in others that appeared in them.

Black Panther
Winter Solider
Even Falcon

I guarantee a faithful adaption of Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel would've been far more successful in the MCU.

One little detail...... Carol was already Cap Marvel when Disney started with the movie in 2013.

Remember you had folks fighting against certain movies being made. Because they let other badly done DC mainly films influence them.

A Vixen movie pretending to be Catwoman and a badly done and Superman influence free Steel movie should not be used to determine what I do.


Other than Widow and Carol-what other female did they have to use that they had all rights to?

Dakota North? Misty Knight?

[marhawkman]

There's no way Marvel's going to give up the "Captain Marvel" copyright as long as they can help it

which is the real problem... they're so hyper focused on IP law... they're not writing a good story.

[skyvolt2000]

I guarantee a faithful adaption of Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel would've been far more successful in the MCU. If current version of her was so successful, why was her sequel turned into a group venture.

The same reason Cap America's films became group ventures.

Same with Arrowverse.

Same with CERTAIN episodes of tv shows. We call them backdoor pilots. That's how we got Frasier, the empires known as CSI, Law & Order and Chicago shows.

To plant seeds for spinoff projects.

And some of them become films and tv shows....

[Dipter]

Same with CERTAIN episodes of tv shows. We call them backdoor pilots. That's how we got Frasier, the empires known as CSI, Law & Order and Chicago shows.

To plant seeds for spinoff projects.

And some of them become films and tv shows....

But this the reverse of those examples. Kamala and Monica already debuted in spin-off tv shows and now they’ve been shoved into the Captain marvel sequel, completely changing its branding. What projects would they be setting up at this point? Ms. Marvel season 2? They don’t need a whole film for that…

[Orbus]

Alright. Bring back Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel.

Why? He was given two chances to catch on back in the day and didn't. To most fans felt his mythology was more interesting than the character himself. To be clear no version of Captain Marvel published by Marvel has ever been all that popular. Monica gained a cult following as an Avenger and while I thought the Peter David series based around Genis were good neither of them sold well. The only time they the mantle was kinda popular was when Carol first debuted with the code name. Civil War II seemed to kill her momentum but she has had something of a sales boost after the movie came out...which is strange as the internet seems insistent on telling me everyone hated it.

It just seems people who are insistent that legacy characters should have their own unique identity separate are simply looking for them to fail. In most cases these characters living up the mantle set by the 'classic' version is a big part of their appeal or for others it's seeing a twist on a familiar concept. There was a brief time at the end of Bendis' tenure writing the character when it was rumoured Marvel wanted to give Miles Morales a unique code name until some person with common sense told them there was a movie coming out which was all about him being Spider-Man. The one-two punch of that movie and the video game he was helped the character rebound and is currently one Marvel's best selling characters. Funny how this seems to happen to characters the internet tells me no one cares about...and will probably happen again to Kamala Khan when she's resurrected after the Captain Marvel sequel comes out.

[cranger]

Why? He was given two chances to catch on back in the day and didn't. To most fans felt his mythology was more interesting than the character himself. To be clear no version of Captain Marvel published by Marvel has ever been all that popular. Monica gained a cult following as an Avenger and while I thought the Peter David series based around Genis were good neither of them sold well. The only time they were kinda popular was when Carol first debuted with the code name. Civil War II seemed to kill her momentum but she has had something of a sales boost after the movie came out...which is strange as the internet seems insistent on telling me everyone hated it.

It just seems people who are insistent that legacy characters should have their own unique identity separate are simply looking for them to fail. In most cases these characters living up the mantle set by the 'classic' version is a big part of their appeal or for others it's seeing a twist on a familiar concept. There was a brief time at the end of Bendis' tenure writing the character when it was rumoured Marvel wanted to give Miles Morales a unique code name until some person with common sense told them there was a movie coming out which was all about him being Spider-Man. The one-two punch of that movie and the video game he was helped the character rebound and is currently one Marvel's best selling characters. Funny how this seems to happen to characters the internet tells me no one cares...and whill probably happen again to Kamala Khan when she's resurrected after the Captain Marvel sequel comes out.

I agree with a lot of this, but the sales claims are questionable. Captain Marvel did not sell well even after the movie came out. The book was already sub 30K and got a bit of spike due to a new character and some other speculation. I get the sense that word of mouth from people checking it out kept it in a comfortable range. Kind of like a mix of speculation and people actually reading copies of Ewings Immortal Hulk gave it enough of a cushion to sail to 50 issues or whatever it got to.

Also, it is a little early to call Miles a top seller (in comics). He has a brand new book and is doing alright but his last book was not exactly sitting at the top of the charts. The new volume started nicely but we are seeing the usual drop off from the first issue sales and the first appearance speculation will fade. Hopefully it evens out and sticks around the mid tier. I have heard good things about it and did read the latest issue.

As for the code name, we all know everyone calls him Miles Morales. Just like Ghost Spider is just called Spider-Gwen by fans and not at all in the comics.

[Anthony W]

Then wouldn't that train of thought also apply to..

Let me just stop you right there. No. No it wouldn't.

Being that we were discussing movie success (my quote that you used actually had that bolded) and the red hot state of the MCU. So everything you were trying to list doesn't apply.

[Anthony W]

Why? He was given two chances to catch on back in the day and didn't.

Must..resist...urge...to....make...obvious..joke!

[Username taken]

Why? He was given two chances to catch on back in the day and didn't. To most fans felt his mythology was more interesting than the character himself. To be clear no version of Captain Marvel published by Marvel has ever been all that popular. Monica gained a cult following as an Avenger and while I thought the Peter David series based around Genis were good neither of them sold well. The only time they the mantle was kinda popular was when Carol first debuted with the code name. Civil War II seemed to kill her momentum but she has had something of a sales boost after the movie came out...which is strange as the internet seems insistent on telling me everyone hated it.

It just seems people who are insistent that legacy characters should have their own unique identity separate are simply looking for them to fail. In most cases these characters living up the mantle set by the 'classic' version is a big part of their appeal or for others it's seeing a twist on a familiar concept. There was a brief time at the end of Bendis' tenure writing the character when it was rumoured Marvel wanted to give Miles Morales a unique code name until some person with common sense told them there was a movie coming out which was all about him being Spider-Man. The one-two punch of that movie and the video game he was helped the character rebound and is currently one Marvel's best selling characters. Funny how this seems to happen to characters the internet tells me no one cares about...and will probably happen again to Kamala Khan when she's resurrected after the Captain Marvel sequel comes out.

Agreed.

I still hear people screaming about Miles and perhaps cancelling his title and I ask- why should Marvel cancel one of their highest selling titles featuring one of their most popular new characters that had an oscar winning movie, starred in his own video game, has ANOTHER movie coming out and is featuring in another game? This stuff has to make sense.

As for Mar-Vell, he's probably best known for his death. No point in trading an actually successful character for one that struggled to carry a title in an era where characters like that actually sold.

[Username taken]

which is the real problem... they're so hyper focused on IP law... they're not writing a good story.

Carol's most recent run was actually pretty good.

It was much, much, much better than the previous ones which were really pretty terrible.

Kelly Sue DeConnick's run was much hyped but not really good. Kelly Thompson finally figured out how to write a good Captain Marvel series.