What Does Spider-Man Editorial Really Know About "Youth"?

[Alan2099]

So you could say they don't want to cure cancer, they want to turn people into dinosaurs.

Turning people into dinosaurs is a lot more fun to watch anyway.

[ARkadelphia]

Peter just has the same gene as Franklin Richards. You know, the one that kept him the same age while everyone around him continued to get older.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

Well, after doing some quick research:

Zeb Wells is 46
John Romita jr is 66
Nick Lowe is 43
C.B Cebulski is 52
Tom Brevoort is 56
Dan Slott is 55

What about that line up screams "understanding youth" to you?

[Garlador]

Well, after doing some quick research:

Zeb Wells is 46
John Romita jr is 66
Nick Lowe is 43
C.B Cebulski is 52
Tom Brevoort is 56
Dan Slott is 55

What about that line up screams "understanding youth" to you?

To be fair, Stan Lee was about 40 when he created Spider-Man.

But he also never insisted Spider-Man was exclusively about youth, hence writing him growing up very quickly.

[Knightsilver]

Peter just has the same gene as Franklin Richards. You know, the one that kept him the same age while everyone around him continued to get older.

At least Franklin literally had reality warping powers as an explanation. Peter is just written as a manchild who can't get his act together.

[Brian B]

In light of the “fridging” one of Gen Z’s favorite superheroes, we need ask ourselves: What does Spider-Man Editorial really know about getting new younger readers?

So I wrote an article!
https://subatomicviewer.wordpress.co...g-about-youth/

That’s a decent opinion piece you wrote, although it could use a little more support in the arguments it makes.

Also, you refer to 12 panels that Ms. Marvel was in, when it was 12 pages, not panels. She was in a LOT more panels than pages. Panels are the individual picture boxes. The page is the whole page. This may seem picky, but if you are going to write with authority, it’s important to use the terms of art properly.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

That’s a decent opinion piece you wrote, although it could use a little more support in the arguments it makes.

Also, you refer to 12 panels that Ms. Marvel was in, when it was 12 pages, not panels. She was in a LOT more panels than pages. Panels are the individual picture boxes. The page is the whole page. This may seem picky, but if you are going to write with authority, it’s important to use the terms of art properly.

Thanks for catching that typo for me. Just edited it.

As for the length, that's fair, but I tried to keep it short and "to the point" for readers (especially since I'm unknown). I do have plans for longer, more in-depth pieces, though. Working on two right now.

[Hulkout42]

Initially, I think the idea behind OMD/BND was a book written for a supposed target demographic which predominated in the 90s: a stereotype of the teenage white male consumer. This consumer is theoretically only interested in reading about a Peter that is young and single and free to date the next hot chick. Its why the women of 90s Marvel were 99% **** and ass. And they balked at the idea of writing something for an older audience.

Now, I think they've totally abandoned that idea. The book isn't being written to appeal to anyone. Not the older fans. Not the zoomers. Not even this mythical teenage white dude (you think they'd be interested in reading about the umpteenth Peter-Mary Jane break-up saga?) No, they seem to be fully embracing rage bait as a sales tactic. They know readers will loathe what's happening and that's the target they're aiming for. It almost feels spiteful. The question is when all of this rage bait can go too far (as in the case with Kamala.)

...i wish you were wrong, but all evidence shown so far points to this bitter truth.

[Lee]

To be fair, Stan Lee was about 40 when he created Spider-Man.

But he also never insisted Spider-Man was exclusively about youth, hence writing him growing up very quickly.

Peter was still a teenager at the end of Stan's run on Amazing Spider-Man. He was aged up once, when he went from high school to college, then remained the same until the end of the run.

[Hoodj]

Peter should be about youth from a young hero standpoint compared to other heroes and villains he interacts with, thats where his main concept is about, hes an up comer to people like Reed Richard ajd Captqim America. I think thats what the writers want Peter as his development to work on, his normal life stuff is mature and pretty much doesnt push people to tune in, its always the hero stuff that is at the core of it all and the relatability behind the hero stuff.

[Daibhidh]

While Peter should be closer in age to Kate Bishop than to Tony Stark, nevertheless there are at least three whole cohorts of heroes that are younger than he is at this point. (There's Cloak and Dagger, and the New Warriors, who are all roughly of an age, the Young Avengers, and then the Champions. Also there are several groups of mutants.) There are heroes who are more about youth than Spider-man is at this point.
If you use the words power and responsibility in the same sentence there are people who've never read the comics and aren't particularly superhero fans who will know which character you're alluding to. You would think that might be what Peter is about. Nobody ever says with great youth comes great fallibility or whatever the Spider-office has thought Peter should be about since OMD set in.

Also: to a child watching Spider-man cartoons in the eighties or nineties Peter was an adult. He wasn't at school. He was independent in how he chose to spend his time. Aunt May didn't have parental authority over him. She was of the grandmotherly generation. The first Spider-man film starts out at school but he starts going to university and moves out of his childhood home half way through. To people who came into Spider-man with that background saying Peter is about youth doesn't mean he's a teenager with teenager problems: it means he's twenty something with twenty something problems. It means that he's past the point where he's basically insecure about life but he's still idealistic.
Being young means he has his future before him. Since OMD his future has been behind him. OMD has aged him more than the marriage ever did.

[marhawkman]

While Peter should be closer in age to Kate Bishop than to Tony Stark, nevertheless there are at least three whole cohorts of heroes that are younger than he is at this point. (There's Cloak and Dagger, and the New Warriors, who are all roughly of an age, the Young Avengers, and then the Champions. Also there are several groups of mutants.) There are heroes who are more about youth than Spider-man is at this point.
If you use the words power and responsibility in the same sentence there are people who've never read the comics and aren't particularly superhero fans who will know which character you're alluding to. You would think that might be what Peter is about. Nobody ever says with great youth comes great fallibility or whatever the Spider-office has thought Peter should be about since OMD set in.

Also: to a child watching Spider-man cartoons in the eighties or nineties Peter was an adult. He wasn't at school. He was independent in how he chose to spend his time. Aunt May didn't have parental authority over him. She was of the grandmotherly generation. The first Spider-man film starts out at school but he starts going to university and moves out of his childhood home half way through. To people who came into Spider-man with that background saying Peter is about youth doesn't mean he's a teenager with teenager problems: it means he's twenty something with twenty something problems. It means that he's past the point where he's basically insecure about life but he's still idealistic.
Being young means he has his future before him. Since OMD his future has been behind him. OMD has aged him more than the marriage ever did.

If Pete is less than 18... that means most of the Avengers Academy and Initiative recruits are older than him.

To include but not limited to Suzy Sherman:
all.jpg

[bat39]

Well, ultimately I think 616 is irreparably broken.

DC may screw the pooch each time it tries to event its way into a new timeline, but they max out at less than 30 years of lore at a time they have to pretend makes sense. Some of the Marvel Cold War villains don't make a ton of sense anymore . . . and I don't know that too many of them have been adjusted for the time shift.

Hate to say it, but given the state of US-Russia relations right now, a lot of the Marvel Cold War villains do make sense again...

I do think Marvel has done a fair job with the sliding timescale and updating the origins and early years of characters while still technically maintaining the same continuity. I think a bigger problem for Spider-Man continuity is something like Peter and MJ's marriage being erased from history (though, to be fair, that was explained in excruciating detail in OMIT) than the the issue of whether Peter got bitten by the spider in 1962 or in the late 2000's.

Peter should be about youth from a young hero standpoint compared to other heroes and villains he interacts with, thats where his main concept is about, hes an up comer to people like Reed Richard ajd Captqim America. I think thats what the writers want Peter as his development to work on, his normal life stuff is mature and pretty much doesnt push people to tune in, its always the hero stuff that is at the core of it all and the relatability behind the hero stuff.

Honestly, at this point, Peter as a 'young' up-and-coming hero doesn't work at all. Peter's been Spider-Man for around 12-15 years (realistically should be 15 or more). In-universe, he's been a hero almost as long as the Fantastic Four and technically longer than the likes of Iron Man or Daredevil or the vast majority of the X-men, along with tons of other characters.

While Peter should be closer in age to Kate Bishop than to Tony Stark, nevertheless there are at least three whole cohorts of heroes that are younger than he is at this point. (There's Cloak and Dagger, and the New Warriors, who are all roughly of an age, the Young Avengers, and then the Champions. Also there are several groups of mutants.) There are heroes who are more about youth than Spider-man is at this point.
If you use the words power and responsibility in the same sentence there are people who've never read the comics and aren't particularly superhero fans who will know which character you're alluding to. You would think that might be what Peter is about. Nobody ever says with great youth comes great fallibility or whatever the Spider-office has thought Peter should be about since OMD set in.

Also: to a child watching Spider-man cartoons in the eighties or nineties Peter was an adult. He wasn't at school. He was independent in how he chose to spend his time. Aunt May didn't have parental authority over him. She was of the grandmotherly generation. The first Spider-man film starts out at school but he starts going to university and moves out of his childhood home half way through. To people who came into Spider-man with that background saying Peter is about youth doesn't mean he's a teenager with teenager problems: it means he's twenty something with twenty something problems. It means that he's past the point where he's basically insecure about life but he's still idealistic.
Being young means he has his future before him. Since OMD his future has been behind him. OMD has aged him more than the marriage ever did.

Good point about the cartoons and the Raimi films. The shift seems to have happened somewhere around the 2000's (ironically, in part because of the exponential growth in the character's popularity after the movies). I guess the success of Ultimate Spider-Man might also have been a factor? Suddenly almost every adaptation was about Peter in high-school - including the TASM reboot (as much as I loved that film).

With the films, it's funny (or maybe not) that every time they try to move Peter's story forward, a reboot hits. Raimi's Spider-Man 3 ended with Peter and MJ as a fully-committed couple almost certainly heading for marriage...then the franchise is rebooted to put Peter back in high school with Gwen as his high school girlfriend! TASM2 ends with Gwen's death and Peter likely heading to college...then the franchise is rebooted to make him 15(?) again and a kid protege to Iron Man! Now, NWH has ended with Peter heading to college and starting life over again as an independent young adult...thankfully it seems this time, because of the MCU, that won't get rebooted away in the near-future and we'll be sticking with this Spider-Man for awhile. Or, who knows? Kang Dynasty is coming up after all...maybe the MCU gets rebooted and we're back to Peter in high school

[Purple]

Personal crack-pot theory: muddying the waters about the death of Gwen Stacy, as OP put it, is intentional. Marvel's been slowly blurring the lines between Earth 65's and Eath 616's Gwens, and I genuinely wouldn't be shocked if at some point 616-Gwen comes back as a spider-person, or they pull some convoluted shenanigans and say that she didn't die on that bridge, she was actually transported to Eath-65, and it's the same person.

[Huntsman Spider]

Personal crack-pot theory: muddying the waters about the death of Gwen Stacy, as OP put it, is intentional. Marvel's been slowly blurring the lines between Earth 65's and Eath 616's Gwens, and I genuinely wouldn't be shocked if at some point 616-Gwen comes back as a spider-person, or they pull some convoluted shenanigans and say that she didn't die on that bridge, she was actually transported to Eath-65, and it's the same person.

Funny enough, What If? Dark: Spider-Gwen is supposed to be about a version of 616 Gwen where it was Spider-Man who died on that bridge against the Green Goblin instead of her, and she tries to avenge him by gaining spider-powers of her own, which I'd presume would happen by way of her going to Professor Miles Warren and subjecting herself to experimental gene splicing with Peter's DNA. Hell, if the Life Foundation could end up recreating spider-powers in an attempt to cure cancer that instead accidentally spawned a spiderlike monstrosity during The Arachnis Project mini from the 90s . . .