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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Honestly, at this point, Peter as a 'young' up-and-coming hero doesn't work at all. Peter's been Spider-Man for around 12-15 years (realistically should be 15 or more). In-universe, he's been a hero almost as long as the Fantastic Four and technically longer than the likes of Iron Man or Daredevil or the vast majority of the X-men, along with tons of other characters.

    Good point about the cartoons and the Raimi films. The shift seems to have happened somewhere around the 2000's (ironically, in part because of the exponential growth in the character's popularity after the movies). I guess the success of Ultimate Spider-Man might also have been a factor? Suddenly almost every adaptation was about Peter in high-school - including the TASM reboot (as much as I loved that film).

    With the films, it's funny (or maybe not) that every time they try to move Peter's story forward, a reboot hits. Raimi's Spider-Man 3 ended with Peter and MJ as a fully-committed couple almost certainly heading for marriage...then the franchise is rebooted to put Peter back in high school with Gwen as his high school girlfriend! TASM2 ends with Gwen's death and Peter likely heading to college...then the franchise is rebooted to make him 15(?) again and a kid protege to Iron Man! Now, NWH has ended with Peter heading to college and starting life over again as an independent young adult...thankfully it seems this time, because of the MCU, that won't get rebooted away in the near-future and we'll be sticking with this Spider-Man for awhile. Or, who knows? Kang Dynasty is coming up after all...maybe the MCU gets rebooted and we're back to Peter in high school
    I think the thing is that, for whatever reason, Marvel Editorial really wants a Peter who feels 30-ish and single, and who’s context fits a 30-ish dude whenever any member of his supporting cast or villains pop up, and sometimes even with the premeses they plug into him (Parker Industries). And even his relationships are written in a very adult, not young adult way; he doesn’t have “first crush” or “high school dating” anxiety, and he’s dating women, not girls (…thankfully.)

    So I don’t think modern Marvel editorial has ever written Peter as “young” in his main-line comics… and that contrast with their desire for him to be single-and-ready-to-mingle is what makes the comics feel like a skippable “alternate reality” to a lot of people as far as Peter is concerned.

    It’s entirely possible that Spider-Man *does* have his largest market appeal as a teenager struggling with his heroic responsibilities causing a chaotic love life where he always seems to be chasing a love interest who reciprocates his attraction but dislikes having his split attention… but separating the love life part out from the teenage years radically changes the formula in an outdated way.

    The 30-year old memetic loser does not attract people compared to the 30-soemthing dad or the teen hero.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  2. #77
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    I feel like there’s not much point in aging Peter up if he’s going to keep his old villains. His classic villains like GG, Vulture, Sandman, etc. should all be retired from the story by now.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I think the thing is that, for whatever reason, Marvel Editorial really wants a Peter who feels 30-ish and single, and who’s context fits a 30-ish dude whenever any member of his supporting cast or villains pop up, and sometimes even with the premeses they plug into him (Parker Industries). And even his relationships are written in a very adult, not young adult way; he doesn’t have “first crush” or “high school dating” anxiety, and he’s dating women, not girls (…thankfully.)

    So I don’t think modern Marvel editorial has ever written Peter as “young” in his main-line comics… and that contrast with their desire for him to be single-and-ready-to-mingle is what makes the comics feel like a skippable “alternate reality” to a lot of people as far as Peter is concerned.

    It’s entirely possible that Spider-Man *does* have his largest market appeal as a teenager struggling with his heroic responsibilities causing a chaotic love life where he always seems to be chasing a love interest who reciprocates his attraction but dislikes having his split attention… but separating the love life part out from the teenage years radically changes the formula in an outdated way.

    The 30-year old memetic loser does not attract people compared to the 30-something dad or the teen hero.
    Yeah, I get what you mean. It's not so much that they've de-aged Peter in 616 as that they've regressed his romantic life back to his teenage years or early 20's. And frequently his professional career as well.

    Thing is, they can't really turn the clock back to the 60's or 70's because it's a shared universe...so they have to do the best they can with a 30 year old Peter who has most of his past continuity intact.

    The way I see it, they should let him be the 30-something dad in 616 since the whole purpose of that universe is to advance the story we've been following since the 60's for all the characters. We can have the teen hero or the 20-something hero in the innumerable adaptations, flashback stories and out-of-continuity stories and let that sustain the brand.

    616, like DC's current Earth 0, is very much a 'skippable' alternate reality as you've put it. That's just the way of things with these gargantuan superhero IP's. The guy who started out in Amazing Fantasy # 15 just isn't going to be as well-known to the vast majority of Spider-Man fans across the globe as Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland's Spideys, or the various cartoons, or hell, even Peter B. Parker from the Spider-Verse movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I feel like there’s not much point in aging Peter up if he’s going to keep his old villains. His classic villains like GG, Vulture, Sandman, etc. should all be retired from the story by now.
    I don't think that's the issue though. This is pretty much standard for any long-running superhero franchise. In-universe, Batman has been around for 15-20 years and the Joker, Penguin, Scarecrow, Two Face etc. are all still around.

  4. #79
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    It’s sn issue because it reinforces that all the time that Peter spent as Spider-Man was meaningless.

  5. #80
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    My wife: “the only character Marvel needs to de-age is Aunt May. She’s like 145 years old and has been a gentle breeze away from death for most of her comic existence. How is she still alive?!”

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    My wife: “the only character Marvel needs to de-age is Aunt May. She’s like 145 years old and has been a gentle breeze away from death for most of her comic existence. How is she still alive?!
    Devil magic and wheatcakes.
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It’s sn issue because it reinforces that all the time that Peter spent as Spider-Man was meaningless.
    Again, that's the case with every long-running superhero franchise. It's not a Spider-Man problem...not exclusively anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    My wife: “the only character Marvel needs to de-age is Aunt May. She’s like 145 years old and has been a gentle breeze away from death for most of her comic existence. How is she still alive?!”
    Aunt May's age is only an issue because the Lee/Dikto/Romita era showed her as being pretty frail and in poor health. But beyond her ill health, I think she was at most in her early fifties when Peter became Spider-Man, and in her mid-to-late sixties now.

    That said, if we're talking about 'de-ageing' Aunt May...well, Marissa Tomei says hi

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Again, that's the case with every long-running superhero franchise. It's not a Spider-Man problem...not exclusively anyway.



    Aunt May's age is only an issue because the Lee/Dikto/Romita era showed her as being pretty frail and in poor health. But beyond her ill health, I think she was at most in her early fifties when Peter became Spider-Man, and in her mid-to-late sixties now.

    That said, if we're talking about 'de-ageing' Aunt May...well, Marissa Tomei says hi
    Sorry, I was in a rush when I was writing out the reply. I wasn’t just complaining about Spider-Man in terms of the status quo complaint. I hate it in Batman and all the other superheroes too.

    I hate how Power Rangers has started to pick it up as well.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Again, that's the case with every long-running superhero franchise. It's not a Spider-Man problem...not exclusively anyway.



    Aunt May's age is only an issue because the Lee/Dikto/Romita era showed her as being pretty frail and in poor health. But beyond her ill health, I think she was at most in her early fifties when Peter became Spider-Man, and in her mid-to-late sixties now.

    That said, if we're talking about 'de-ageing' Aunt May...well, Marissa Tomei says hi
    even when she wasnt ill she still looked over 80
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Sorry, I was in a rush when I was writing out the reply. I wasn’t just complaining about Spider-Man in terms of the status quo complaint. I hate it in Batman and all the other superheroes too.

    I hate how Power Rangers has started to pick it up as well.
    you mean when they switch to a new cast?
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Aunt May's age is only an issue because the Lee/Dikto/Romita era showed her as being pretty frail and in poor health. But beyond her ill health, I think she was at most in her early fifties when Peter became Spider-Man, and in her mid-to-late sixties now.

    That said, if we're talking about 'de-ageing' Aunt May...well, Marissa Tomei says hi
    Actually... no... that's the funny thing. Marissa was in her 50s as aunt May. Her current age is 58. She first played the role when she'd have been around 50.

    that's actually a reasonable age for someone who's the aunt of a 17-year-old.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    you mean when they switch to a new cast?
    I’m talking about bringing back old villains.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Actually... no... that's the funny thing. Marissa was in her 50s as aunt May. Her current age is 58. She first played the role when she'd have been around 50.

    that's actually a reasonable age for someone who's the aunt of a 17-year-old.
    Where did the idea that family members have to be close in age come from?

  13. #88

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    When I stated reading the various Spider-Man comics in the 90s and that here was a geek in high school who was now a superhero and married to a beautiful super model was actual gave me hope that I could find love and marriage.

  14. #89
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Sorry, I was in a rush when I was writing out the reply. I wasn’t just complaining about Spider-Man in terms of the status quo complaint. I hate it in Batman and all the other superheroes too.

    I hate how Power Rangers has started to pick it up as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    you mean when they switch to a new cast?
    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I’m talking about bringing back old villains.



    Where did the idea that family members have to be close in age come from?
    To be somewhat fair to Power Rangers, they're celebrating 30 years since Mighty Morphin' first premiered on TV this year, so of course they're bringing back some of the villainous icons from that original era.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    When I stated reading the various Spider-Man comics in the 90s and that here was a geek in high school who was now a superhero and married to a beautiful super model was actual gave me hope that I could find love and marriage.
    Indeed.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Where did the idea that family members have to be close in age come from?
    "Have to be"? UM, dealing with the laws of Human biology, how big of an age spread can you have between full siblings?

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