Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 156
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,816

    Default

    I think it's clear that, like a lot of modern comic editors, what we have right now is a department driven by dudes who are convinced that they know the marketing code for guaranteed long-term success, when in reality its likely they've really only found themselves occupying a powerful job in what's actually a very niche industry and are misinterpreting data and creator feedback.

    I tend to think that when the comic market bubble burst back in the 90's, a little-known output of it was that the editing pool actually took the most hits in terms of future employment by skilled workers. Writers and artists still arise at about the same rate of quality (since the "niche-in-a-niche" of comic fans they come from likely wasn't effected), but the smaller, more static marketplace decreased the financial interest for those people with gifted skills for comic editor jobs as well as the type of market reactivity needed to "train" competent comic editors... and its likely the result of the companies becoming convinced "good" editors happened to be the same type of editors who destroyed the marketplace in the first place.

    These guys likely all follow the same over-intrusive, formula-obsessed line of thought that created The Clone Saga - especially since some of The Clone Saga's genesis emerged from a similar obsession that marriage was killing off a part of the comic's appeal.

    So of course they don't know what the "youths" want, they're following the same game-plan that wrecked the marketplace long ago - where the obsession that marriage kills comic interest is a minor part of the same smorgasbord recipe that involves a lot of variant covers, short term sales tactics, and a lot of office politics instead of scouting out and learning how to groom strong writers.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    2,563

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I think it's clear that, like a lot of modern comic editors, what we have right now is a department driven by dudes who are convinced that they know the marketing code for guaranteed long-term success, when in reality its likely they've really only found themselves occupying a powerful job in what's actually a very niche industry and are misinterpreting data and creator feedback.

    I tend to think that when the comic market bubble burst back in the 90's, a little-known output of it was that the editing pool actually took the most hits in terms of future employment by skilled workers. Writers and artists still arise at about the same rate of quality (since the "niche-in-a-niche" of comic fans they come from likely wasn't effected), but the smaller, more static marketplace decreased the financial interest for those people with gifted skills for comic editor jobs as well as the type of market reactivity needed to "train" competent comic editors... and its likely the result of the companies becoming convinced "good" editors happened to be the same type of editors who destroyed the marketplace in the first place.

    These guys likely all follow the same over-intrusive, formula-obsessed line of thought that created The Clone Saga - especially since some of The Clone Saga's genesis emerged from a similar obsession that marriage was killing off a part of the comic's appeal.

    So of course they don't know what the "youths" want, they're following the same game-plan that wrecked the marketplace long ago - where the obsession that marriage kills comic interest is a minor part of the same smorgasbord recipe that involves a lot of variant covers, short term sales tactics, and a lot of office politics instead of scouting out and learning how to groom strong writers.
    Well said.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    o of course they don't know what the "youths" want, they're following the same game-plan that wrecked the marketplace long ago - where the obsession that marriage kills comic interest is a minor part of the same smorgasbord recipe that involves a lot of variant covers, short term sales tactics, and a lot of office politics instead of scouting out and learning how to groom strong writers.
    I think they're doing whatever they can to tread water. The industry continues to become more and more niche over time.

    And comics never adapted the way that other periodicals did.

    $3.99 for 22 pages each month is a terrible model (it was a good model when comics were $1.00). It's just what's always been done. And if they try to innovate too much away from the model, they risk the razor-thin margins that keep the industry afloat.

  4. #19
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I think they're doing whatever they can to tread water. The industry continues to become more and more niche over time.

    And comics never adapted the way that other periodicals did.

    $3.99 for 22 pages each month is a terrible model (it was a good model when comics were $1.00). It's just what's always been done. And if they try to innovate too much away from the model, they risk the razor-thin margins that keep the industry afloat.
    it becomes more and mroe niche, but why? perhaps BECAUSE of the old model not changing ta all?
    I mean come on the popularity of these characters and superheroes in general are at an all time high! Why does it become more and more niche

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scarletspidey View Post
    it becomes more and mroe niche, but why? perhaps BECAUSE of the old model not changing ta all?
    I mean come on the popularity of these characters and superheroes in general are at an all time high! Why does it become more and more niche
    Don't need to read comics to see the characters though. They're in movies and cartoons and Disney+ shows.

  6. #21
    Censorship Sucks
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    152

    Default

    How many times has her book been cancelled and restarted?
    She is popular.

  7. #22
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Don't need to read comics to see the characters though. They're in movies and cartoons and Disney+ shows.
    thats true, but I dont think 22 pages for $4 for a confusing as hell history helps either

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I think they're doing whatever they can to tread water. The industry continues to become more and more niche over time.

    And comics never adapted the way that other periodicals did.

    $3.99 for 22 pages each month is a terrible model (it was a good model when comics were $1.00). It's just what's always been done. And if they try to innovate too much away from the model, they risk the razor-thin margins that keep the industry afloat.
    Agreed, albeit I think they got themselves in this mess with the speculation boom that The Clone Saga and other such events kicked off, and killed off the breadth of marketplace they needed to manage lower prices. And the speculation boom was in part fueled by the same marketing-based decisions that still plague the industry today.

    A more realistic business model would likely be to move a lot of comics to digital only on their initial release - either by subscription style services or at a cheaper per-issue price - and then make the bulk of revenue come from TPBs and other collections.

    Comics need to stop thinking of themselves as driven by monthly sales at all, and start realizing that its in larger patches and re-readability that they thrive. But current editorial offices are obsessed with brief, event-driven bumps on monthly sales.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Garlador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I think they're doing whatever they can to tread water. The industry continues to become more and more niche over time.

    And comics never adapted the way that other periodicals did.

    $3.99 for 22 pages each month is a terrible model (it was a good model when comics were $1.00). It's just what's always been done. And if they try to innovate too much away from the model, they risk the razor-thin margins that keep the industry afloat.
    And while it’s big a cultural difference, Manga sales are at the highest they’ve ever been in history per a recent February report, both in Japan and in the west. Plenty of people want to and are reading comics!… but not western ones with the current approach to sales and mandated monthly storytelling.

    I don’t have the solution, but I know I don’t buy monthlies anymore. I grab TPB to get as much story as I can for a good price and more easily see the story being constructed across multiple issues. It’s one reason I’m happily avoiding ASM because I waited and didn’t invest in a bad story early only to suffer sunk cost fallacy paying $4 a month for a book I hate hoping it gets better.

    I rarely jump into a story before I hear from others if it’s worth my time and money. I know with my manga-loving friends, even an on-going story decades old has an easily accessible starting point.

    I don’t know. I agree the current model is outdated. This run of Spider-Man is “making money” but sales are still down hard from what they used to be across the board. I find it ironic that all the best-selling Spider-Man comics are from the marriage era as well…

  10. #25
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,392

    Default

    I don’t know. I agree the current model is outdated. This run of Spider-Man is “making money” but sales are still down hard from what they used to be across the board. I find it ironic that all the best-selling Spider-Man comics are from the marriage era as well…
    True, but everything "best selling" was from the 90s. This is back when Marvel could give series to characters like Sleepwalker, Nomad, and Silver Sable and not one person would complain that they "didn't deserve it."

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Garlador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    True, but everything "best selling" was from the 90s. This is back when Marvel could give series to characters like Sleepwalker, Nomad, and Silver Sable and not one person would complain that they "didn't deserve it."
    Definitely. Context matters. But even after the bubble burst, there were still marriage-era Spider-Man comics crossing the 500k mark, which is incredible as all those other books fell off the map.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,774

    Default

    Heh, it's kind of funny.

    Using sales during the 90s to argue the marriage was good, while people in Marvel argued the quality of stories during that period proved the marriage was bad.

    Comics boomed and were bad during the 90s. Not much to glean from there other than chasing the speculator market sent Marvel spiraling.

    I do think, ironically, the period between Doomed Affairs and OMD was the best the marriage was written . . . just before it got scrapped.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Posts
    4,451

    Default

    What does Editorial know about the youths? Nothing. Not a damn thing. I don't think anyone does, really.
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  14. #29
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    What does Editorial know about the youths? Nothing. Not a damn thing. I don't think anyone does, really.
    I know something about youths. I was a youths once.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Posts
    4,451

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I know something about youths. I was a youths once.
    I...don't know where I was going with this, I totally lost my train of thought. Damn.
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •