X-Men Monday #203 – Ewing, Gillen & Spurrier Reflect on Sins of Sinister

[Micabe]

X-Men v5 #20
Nimrod (Earth-811)

Namely, the creation of the Earth-616 Nimrod formerly manned by the memories engrams of one baseline human named Erasmus Mendel. It would seem the destruction of the Orchis Forge may have proven all for naught.

[Grunty]

Namely, the creation of the Earth-616 Nimrod formerly manned by the memories engrams of one baseline human named Erasmus Mendel. It would seem the destruction of the Orchis Forge may have proven all for naught.

When are the plans of the main villains ever stopped in the prologue? At best the heros create a setback or their success forces the villains to perform an even more dangerous action. This story being no exception.

The problem in this story however is that there is no good reason why the heros, after being given such a position of massive power by the writer, would not finish the job or worse, do such a terrible job, which in turn makes them look weirdly stunted rather than reinforce the credibility of the villains.

[Micabe]

I can dig it. But, while not a new threat, don't you think this rather subtle juxtaposition to the viewpoint of an old, yet new, immediate threat isn't novel? That Mutantdom now faces something that they can't just vote off the island especially since it can spontaneously duplicate. That some Baseline humans haven't forgotten that Orchis is a credible, tangible, and imminent threat to all who possess an active X-Gene. A threat so subtle, that for all their advanced technologies and magical prowess they have no idea that an Earth-811/Nimrod unit was built a few decades before its time, and Krakoa nor Arakko respectively have a clue it's coming and neither does the Baseline human population -- then add the possible threat of a returned Archenemy, and S'ym as a spoil for Mysterium, and toss in everything that is Otherplace/Otherworld and mutantkind might actually have to fight for survival in earnest this time around -- preferably without the Resurrection Protocols to fall back upon after each and every casuality.

[Nicoclaws]

I recall mutant technology basicly refers to the idea of mutants using their super powers to immitate the functions of technological creations.
Or more precisely what sapient beings who have no access to (what would be considered by real world standard) super powers would need to create machinery for.
etc.

We are on the same page here.
I think Gillen is trying to show how Sinister's viewing mutant as just their power and then tools is different than what the rest of Krakoa wants to achieve, but he focuse way too much on Sinister to show the contrasting views.
I think he delegated that to Spurrier, who managed his part only partly imho.
Ewing is also trying to say something about that, by using Arrako (whose mutants are definitely used to see themselves not only as tools but specifically as weapons).

[Grunty]

I can dig it. But, while not a new threat, don't you think this rather subtle juxtaposition to the viewpoint of an old, yet new, immediate threat isn't novel? That Mutantdom now faces something that they can't just vote off the island especially since it can spontaneously duplicate. That some Baseline humans haven't forgotten that Orchis is a credible, tangible, and imminent threat to all who possess an active X-Gene. A threat so subtle, that for all their advanced technologies and magical prowess they have no idea that an Earth-811 unit was built a few decades before its time, and Krakoa nor Arakko respectively have a clue it's coming and neither does the Baseline human population -- then add the possible threat of a returned Archenemy as a spoil for, and toss in everything that is Otherplace Otherworld and mutantkind might actually have to fight for survival in earnest this time around -- preferably without the Resurrection Protocols to fall back upon after each and every casuality.

On the subject of "survival in earnest". I feel that would carry more weight if they didn't had to fight for their survival every odd week even with Krakoa and went through at least 2 near annihilations of mutants barely a few months/years ago.

Metaphorical speaking, they didn't even had enough time to hang their rifles on the wall for a while, before the story could actualy justify them getting complacent enough to be so ignorant of the danger of Orchis and what kind of horrorfying sentinels they could have allready created in the weirdly impenetrable fortress orbiting close to the sun (while on Earth everyone still use regular smart phones).

It's a problem that can also be seen with how quick they were to embrace the ressurection protocol, the founding of Krakoa itself and the villains being welcome in their new nation. It feels too rushed in order to play them up as having become victims of complanceny, even though that should take years of relative peace time.

Though it's nice to see enthusiam like this for the comming crisis storylines.

We are on the same page here.
I think Gillen is trying to show how Sinister's viewing mutant as just their power and then tools is different than what the rest of Krakoa wants to achieve, but he focuse way too much on Sinister to show the contrasting views.
I think he delegated that to Spurrier, who managed his part only partly imho.
Ewing is also trying to say something about that, by using Arrako (whose mutants are definitely used to see themselves not only as tools but specifically as weapons).

If i recall right they don't see themself as weapons, but rather they distinct their powers into those suited for direct combat (hence weapons) and those which aren't (making someone without such powers weaponless).

However that does indeed reflect the idea of powers being used as substitute for technological created tools and in case of this warrior society being valued higher than the crafted tools.

[Nicoclaws]

On the subject of "survival in earnest". I feel that would carry more weight if they didn't had to fight for their survival every odd week even with Krakoa and went through at least 2 near annihilations of mutants barely a few months/years ago.

Metaphorical speaking, they didn't even had enough time to hang their rifles on the wall for a while, before the story could actualy justify them getting complacent enough to be so ignorant of the danger of Orchis and what kind of horrorfying sentinels they could have allready created in the weirdly impenetrable fortress orbiting close to the sun (while on Earth everyone still use regular smart phones).

It's a problem that can also be seen with how quick they were to embrace the ressurection protocol, the founding of Krakoa itself and the villains being welcome in their new nation. It feels too rushed in order to play them up as having become victims of complanceny, even though that should take years of relative peace time.

Though it's nice to see enthusiam like this for the comming crisis storylines.



If i recall right they don't see themself as weapons, but rather they distinct their powers into those suited for direct combat (hence weapons) and those which aren't (making someone without such powers weaponless).

However that does indeed reflect the idea of powers being used as substitute for technological created tools and in case of this warrior society being valued higher than the crafted tools.

Ah, true. Hence Weaponless Szen.

[king of hybrids]

It won’t happen, but I feel it would be ironic if the only positive outcome of Mystique’s failed attack on the Forge is in ensuring that Omega and the machines don’t form any alliances with post-humans like the CoTV due lack of the transhuman bridge Mendel-Nimrod would have represented