Captain America vs Batman

[Cody]

Here's the ruling, that you are ignoring in every way, right down to arguing it with feats from an era that have been completely discounted, and ignoring what is noted in it for arguing it with said feats.

http://community.comicbookresources....ll=1#post31734

And like is said in that ruling, evidence can prove it otherwise if sufficient. The evidence I have provided is not sufficient enough obviously.

A bunch of random, no context respect thread scans, one of them from the Ult Universe certainly make that case, a bunch of them not even showing bullets, certainly make that case.

Don't pull that crap Pen, you damn well know what I meant.

[Pendaran]

Reasons?

I know this is going to get a bunch of more random respect threads giant scans, but everything from "light hits" from high end bricks to emerging unscathed from a frigging exploding warehouse are also in Batman's repertoire, they're all entirely bullcrap for guys whose durability is peak human. Your entire argument is right now "based on when Cap jobs people out, Captain America is more durable".

[Pendaran]

http://community.comicbookresources....ll=1#post31734

And like is said in that ruling, evidence can prove it otherwise if sufficient. The evidence I have provided is not sufficient enough obviously.

What the ruling actually says is that sufficient evidence from post 2010 could be argued in a thread (though given everything before it being discounted, that would be some impressive ignoring.. the majority of Cap's career to that point, if someone came along and said "I found this one feat now from the last few years that now changes everything!"), and that if you want to dredge up anything from before that, like with all ruling appeals, for which the process has not changed otherwise, you pm the mods instead.

To sum up: Nothing you have posted is from after 2010. That's without even touching a whole pile of it not showing anything clearly like you want it to show.

[Cody]

I know this is going to get a bunch of more random respect threads giant scans, but everything from "light hits" from high end bricks to emerging unscathed from a frigging exploding warehouse are also in Batman's repertoire, they're all entirely bullcrap for guys whose durability is peak human. Your entire argument is right now "based on when Cap jobs people out, Captain America is more durable".

Don't be a like that. It more or less proves my point. They survive the same **** while one wears armor while the other doesn't wear anywhere near as good protection as his default durability makes it up for him.

The big "Triskelion" might be the tip off.

I don't read that many comics so I wouldn't know if that was in the original universe or not.

[Cody]

What the ruling actually says is that sufficient evidence from post 2010 could be argued in a thread (though given everything before it being discounted, that would be some impressive ignoring.. the majority of Cap's career to that point, if someone came along and said "I found this one feat now from the last few years that now changes everything!"), and that if you want to dredge up anything from before that, like with all ruling appeals, for which the process has not changed otherwise, you pm the mods instead.

To sum up: Nothing you have posted is from after 2010. That's without even touching a whole pile of it not showing anything clearly like you want it to show.

Basically he would have to consistently dodge bullets and/or perform bullet timing feats on a regular basis, and have more showings of that then he does being hit by far slower objects.

In other words if he dodged a bullet like; in his next issue, he would have to continue doing so for several years consistently before he can be regarded as legit.

[Pendaran]

Don't be an ass. It it more or less proves my point. They survive the same **** while one wears armor while the other doesn't wear anywhere near as good protection as his default durability makes it up for him.

No, it doesn't. Batman's armor pre the DCnU protects him largely from bullets (and fire, I guess), and even there, barring this one hilarious time that no one takes seriously, only so well, and depending besides on where you shoot him, and leaves big old chunk of his face exposed that somehow things right up to exploding warehouses do not render to red mist.

For Cap "taking hits from high end bricks" to mean anything, can you qualify, remotely, how hard they're hitting him? If you can't and you're trying to excuse the feat with "They weren't hitting him fully", you've rendered it meaningless. Okay, how "not fully" were they hitting him?

[Cody]

For Cap "taking hits from high end bricks" to mean anything, can you qualify, remotely, how hard they're hitting him? If you can't and you're trying to excuse the feat with "They weren't hitting him fully", you've rendered it meaningless. Okay, how "not fully" were they hitting him?

They were bad examples; I have no problems admitting that. But really; armor made to protect against bullets don't automatically mean they dissolve into puddy when someone punches it. They can absorb the impact from kinetic forces just fine.

[Guy1]

Don't be like that. It more or less proves my point. They survive the same **** while one wears armor while the other doesn't wear anywhere near as good protection as his default durability makes it up for him.
.

thank you for editing.

[Pendaran]

They were bad examples; I have no problems admitting that. But really; armor made to protect against bullets don't automatically mean they dissolve into puddy when someone punches it. They can absorb the impact from kinetic forces just fine.

Lots of people punch Batman in the face. That armor and variants on it have honestly been pretty crap besides at stopping Batman from the just hilarious number of stabbings he's taken over the years.

Pre Flashpoint, part of the entire reason dude had the Bat symbol was most of the armor worth anything was right underneath it and he was basically sort of trying to lead people to hit him there. (this polite suggestion was not always observed. Or even often.). The suit is otherwise a "nomex/Kevlar weave".

edit: He's proofed the suit against specific things, it's insulated, the cape is basically fireproof, the costume's been treated against acid, but the non chest stuff, it's only so good.

edit edit: Post Flashpoint it is more apparently explicitly this broadly durable thing of armor. There's this one time near the end of the post crisis era where there was some hilarious crap with the suit having "shock absorbers", but um, considering all the time previously to that over decades..

[Pendaran]

Being fair as one might, the Batsuit has some high end showings explicitly credited to the suit instead of just being a thing that happens. Compared to Batman's overall career and things that hurt him, I tend to find them pretty crap. Particularly the time a bullet outright more or less bounced off his head (when, for instance, being shot right in the Bat symbol repeatedly has at least slowed him down and hurt the dude, and that's the place with all the good armor), to pick out one example and point out why I find it and stuff like that silly. The times where he uses the cape as a sort of defensive shield are somewhat better.

Post Flashpoint apparently all that **** is straight up tech-ish armor, so, however you want to take that..

[Cody]

Cody. Edit this. Now.

Done.

Limit

[Guy1]

Done.

Limit

Thank you.

[Ite]

I think Cap can beat Batman.

[Kensei]

Just perusing this thread and thought I'd point out that Bats and Cap actually did square off in "JLA/Avengers." They went into stances, shifted around and stared each other down and sized each other up for a minute or so, and then Batman broke off and said something to the effect of "All right, I'll concede you MIGHT be able to beat me. But it would take you a very long time, and do you really want to?" And then of course they agreed that they were not enemies and to work together to take on the real threat. But you guys probably knew that.

[master of read]

Just perusing this thread and thought I'd point out that Bats and Cap actually did square off in "JLA/Avengers." They went into stances, shifted around and stared each other down and sized each other up for a minute or so, and then Batman broke off and said something to the effect of "All right, I'll concede you MIGHT be able to beat me. But it would take you a very long time, and do you really want to?" And then of course they agreed that they were not enemies and to work together to take on the real threat. But you guys probably knew that.

that's nice and all but we really dont use crossovers.