View Poll Results: Judged by the crieria in post 1, how do you rate Azzarello's Wonder Woman?

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  • A Fantastic, gripping. You cant wait to read it each month and reread it over and over for pleasure.

    34 41.46%
  • B Good. Ups & downs but you look forward to it every month

    9 10.98%
  • C Satisfactory. You enjoy reading it. There are some things you'd change.

    10 12.20%
  • D Unimpressed. You're still buying for completenss or just because its WW. Much you would change.

    9 10.98%
  • E Not for you. Maybe you've dropped it & just visit the forums now.

    20 24.39%
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your first statement. Not real sure what you are trying to say there, but your second sentence is extremely accurate. There is a massive gap between DC's "all ages line" and their regular line.
    However, I wouldn't classify Wonder Woman as one of the best books due to the lack of editorial influence. It might actually benefit from some editorial guidance, cutting down some of the padding that would have moved the story along making it a tighter story, while not necessarily a better one.
    My first statement is that even the books aimed to a younger crowd aren't appropriate to this public. in the reality they are books for 30 years old with teenagers characters. Teen titans, the ravagers, all crap.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Thing is though, its not up to you to decide what's appropriate for all of the public. Its up to individual parents to decide what age is appropriate for their child to read the content of these books once they've researched that content for themselves.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Thing is though, its not up to you to decide what's appropriate for all of the public. Its up to individual parents to decide what age is appropriate for their child to read the content of these books once they've researched that content for themselves.
    yeah sure the decision about it it's up to their parents judgement or lack of it. I have a nephew that big part of the he is under my responsability or lack of it lol I have more critery than his father for what he watches. I gave him some comics to him take a look, some not 100% appropriate I admit, unfortunanely he is not too much into reading.
    Last edited by Blacksun; 05-06-2014 at 08:18 PM.

  4. #49
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    Interesting points about age appropriateness. Especially books starring teenagers but written for 30+ year olds. It's a comment I have seen before about books or movies starring women but written for men (an example used was Suckerpunch).

    I always preview movies before Xander and I watch them, using what I call the Star Wars criteria- is this something I myself would have seen when I saw Star Wars as a ten year old. Most Marvel movies get a pass.

    There are absolutely stories that are adult pitched. Game of Thrones is an excellent example. But it's often commented that comic books were a medium first pitched to kids, and that in many ways they have lost touch with that. Ironically comic companies are desperate to get fresh blood reading, but they use stories that exclude the entire demographic that made them a successful industry in the first place and the ones most likely to continue reading if you get them hooked.

    If this run were adapted to a movie, I doubt the Amazon sex raids would make it onto the screen.

  5. #50
    BANNED Tangent Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The early 90's were a hell of a lot better than anything DC produced in its main continuity in the entirety of the 2000s, so if that's where they want to go for inspiration I say more power to them.

    In any case I don't think DC's aim is imitating any of those examples. What I see a lot of, especially with the Superman line as an example, is the merging of a modern feel with Silver/Bronze Age charms. For every bit of the "Hay guys I'm seriously" tone, there's a lot of wacky stuff right along side it on the surface.
    Wow, I disagree on every possible level! The 2000's gave us JSA at its best, Manhunter, Secret Six kicking off, Fallen Angel, Rucka & Simone on Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Madame Xanadu, and the Retroboot Legion (with TWO amazing Superman team ups)! The NuBoot butchered several good runs and titles for a cheap gimmick with mediocre talent that couldn't sustain itself. The current iteration imitates Marvel at its worst--cheaply melodramatic, sensationalist, misogynistic, cynical. The aesthetic depends on a backward-looking Jim Lee bringing back the fugliness of early 90's character designs. Just ATROCIOUS as a house brand!

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Fair enough. The early portion of the decade saw me leave comics entirely as I thought the direction turned boring as sin. Late 2000's brought various signs of promise, but with every bit of promise came botched execution which ruined said potential. For me the reboot was a huge breath of fresh air. Furthermore its my opinion that of to date, its debatable if any character has benefitted as much from said reboot as Wonder Woman herself. With some other candidates being Aquaman and Superman (my distaste for the decade in question in fact stems mostly because of Superman...just a train wreck of a decade for the character outside of non-continuity works such as All-Star).
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-07-2014 at 12:33 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    What, because of the "they are wrong ;>" thing? I was kidding, of course--but then, again, you probably are too.

    Or, if you didn't like that post because there were too many numbers, don't worry; neither slvn nor Silvanus will ever make a habit of math.

    As for the name, I just figured that when we had to re-register I should take the opportunity to get pronounceable.
    I got used to your old screen name slvn as it always came out as either sylven or slaven in my head. Now you are so formal with the capital S and such. You seem so different. Do you still deal in hypotheticals?

  8. #53
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    Using 1-10 as a scale with 1 being bad, 10 being good

    The plot 5
    This should be higher if he could tighten up areas and stop focusing on the godly crime family. Too much of her family for 30 or so issues. Does she even interact with the greater DC universe in her own book? Alot of needless splash pages (like the two page explosion splash with Ares and Strife) as well as a page or more devoted to stuff like how the centaurs came alive. Just some examples. Why this judicious use of power in a superhero book about a superhero? Why couldn't she fly until issue 12 when she got the feather from Hermes?

    The art 6
    Even though I am not a Chiang fan, he probably is about a 7 but the other fill-in artists bring down the overall average to a 6. His art is sketchy and simplistic at times and in my opinion does not convey certain scenes well enough for the reader to guess accurately what happened. In this case, I am talking about the events that led to her 3-day induced coma.

    The characterization 7-8
    At least for Diana, he does a pretty good job but with some miscues like her 'bitch' remark and the grabbing of Orion's junk. Those two instances seemed very much a non-Diana type of characterization to me. As for the other characters, ala her supporting cast, don't really know or care that much.

    The dialogue between characters 4
    The puns are just groan inducing. He even has Diana doing this. His dialogue seems spotty at times and general statements that seem to come out of the blue, like when Diana said 'I love everyone'. Great line, but would like more context and more examples that led up to her saying this because it did seem to come out of left field.

    The action 4
    Very uninspired action. We see Diana either kicking everyones ass or herself getting her ass kicked. Not much in between. The centaurs were just cannon fodder but pages were devoted to them in action against Diana who probably didn't have to blink to beat them up. Plus, some people were wowed by her use of acrobatics when fighting these low rent losers of whom I doubt Batman would put up much of a sweat. We have seen her fight Artemis 3 times. Again, let's get more variety in there. How many times is she going to fight the First Born? I don't think action is something that Azz can write well.

    The pacing 5
    These books are usually a fast read, 10 minutes or less, but not alot seems to get accomplished in the individual issues. The pacing is slow and dragged out. As some people have said, this probably reads better in a trade or by reading several issues in a row. But then again, it is a monthly reading medium and we shouldn't have to say to ourselves that we need 2-3 issues in a row for the plot to grab us.


    I would give the overall mark of 5-6, or in that range. Nothing great, nothing horrible, just there, so to speak.

    I did stop buying Wonder Woman three issues ago. I went to the LCS a week after her issue came out and there were no copies. The proprietor had been buying less issues due to the decreasing demand in this area. I just haven't gone back since then because I think I am getting apathetic about this series. I just don't care if I miss an issue anymore. This includes the SM/WW and the Justice League that I was buying. Maybe the new creative team that comes in will get me to go back. Or maybe it is just TV and movies for me from now on.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    Do you still deal in hypotheticals?
    Well, it depends...

    And did slvn ever really want to deal with hypotheticals? Or did the god manipulate him into doing it, just like they may have manipulated the Amazons into the raids?
    Last edited by Silvanus; 05-07-2014 at 06:38 AM.

  10. #55
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Fair enough. The early portion of the decade saw me leave comics entirely as I thought the direction turned boring as sin. Late 2000's brought various signs of promise, but with every bit of promise came botched execution which ruined said potential.
    I'd instead identify Identity Crisis as the point where the DCU took a wrong turn towards rape, gore, and gratuitous death. It brought us rubbish like Cry for Justice and the maiming and killing of Wendy and Marvin by Wonder Dog. Somebody at DC editorial thought that was a fun and appropriate use of the characters. I see now that the degradation of Wonder Woman and her world at the hands of Azzarello is part of a larger problem, and I'm pretty much swearing off DC until it's fixed.

    The problem with the reboot is that the people who trashed the DCU are still in charge and still heading down the same wrong path.
    "At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    Well, it depends...

    And did slvn ever really want to deal with hypotheticals? Or did the god manipulate him into doing it, just like they may have manipulated the Amazons into the raids?
    I'll tell you what, if some writer whether it's Azz or someone that comes after him and tries to make sense about the amazon sex raids and then basically says they have been manipulated, that will seem like one of the biggest copouts. Kinda like Gail Simone saying it wasn't Diana's amazons, but the Bana's.

  12. #57
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    I'll tell you what, if some writer whether it's Azz or someone that comes after him and tries to make sense about the amazon sex raids and then basically says they have been manipulated, that will seem like one of the biggest copouts. Kinda like Gail Simone saying it wasn't Diana's amazons, but the Bana's.
    I don't fault Gail for that as the whole AA fiasco was ridiculous to start with

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I don't fault Gail for that as the whole AA fiasco was ridiculous to start with
    She shouldn't have touched upon that mess in the first place. But since she did, it was a copout of sorts that she came up with.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    She shouldn't have touched upon that mess in the first place. But since she did, it was a copout of sorts that she came up with.
    If you don't touch upon that mess and make it go away, you can no longer use characters like Artemis and Diana's mom as non-villains who should be in Arkham.

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    I'll tell you what, if some writer whether it's Azz or someone that comes after him and tries to make sense about the amazon sex raids and then basically says they have been manipulated, that will seem like one of the biggest copouts. Kinda like Gail Simone saying it wasn't Diana's amazons, but the Bana's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I don't fault Gail for that as the whole AA fiasco was ridiculous to start with
    Agreed. While I only read enough to get a feel if it would be for me, it would have taken a truly brilliant writer just to get that story to "decent".

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