Your feelings about Azzarello's Wonder Woman in an of itself

[I'm a Fish]

Maybe at some point they realised that Ruck's last run was bad and decided to quietly brush it under the rug.

...since when does DC care whether something is good or bad?

[numberthirty]

To each their own. But i am surprised to see the positive option in the poll winning. I thought more Wondy fans would be more upset about all the things that this run destroyed in Diana's lore.

Politely...

I come back every once in a while to see how folks feel about whatever is going on in whatever the current run is, and was honestly pretty surprised to see that this thread is still limping along.

Making a exception for that DC held on to the whole "She Has A Father..." angle(and a twin, but let's just set that can of worms aside...), the run has literally been wiped from the history books.

I just have a tough time seeing what more the "Did Not Like..." crowd could want. It was literally all but erased.

[HsssH]

Considering the double page spread of characters for Clooney and Conrad's run, doesn't seem like it.

Unlike Azzarello's

Clearly a bad omen for their run

Politely...

I come back every once in a while to see how folks feel about whatever is going on in whatever the current run is, and was honestly pretty surprised to see that this thread is still limping along.

Making a exception for that DC held on to the whole "She Has A Father..." angle(and a twin, but let's just set that can of worms aside...), the run has literally been wiped from the history books.

I just have a tough time seeing what more the "Did Not Like..." crowd could want. It was literally all but erased.

Funny that Zeus being the father is probably #1 thing that "Did Not Like..." crowd... didn't like about the run. And yet it stays. Almost as if DC decided to please neither side.

[SiegePerilous02]

Clearly a bad omen for their run

Doesn't seem to be so far.

Funny that Zeus being the father is probably #1 thing that "Did Not Like..." crowd... didn't like about the run. And yet it stays. Almost as if DC decided to please neither side.

I'd say its tied with misandrist, death by snu-snu Amazons. If anything, that is much more reviled.

[Gaius]

Politely...

I come back every once in a while to see how folks feel about whatever is going on in whatever the current run is, and was honestly pretty surprised to see that this thread is still limping along.

Making a exception for that DC held on to the whole "She Has A Father..." angle(and a twin, but let's just set that can of worms aside...), the run has literally been wiped from the history books.

I just have a tough time seeing what more the "Did Not Like..." crowd could want. It was literally all but erased.

I mean, this thread seemed to be dead for 6-7 years before a poster revived it.

Most of the new comments just seem to come from people who weren't here originally offering their opinions on the run.

And as pointed out, probably the biggest sticking point for many (daddy Zeus) has stuck around and has unfortunately begun making it's way into adaptations of the character.

[AmiMizuno]

While the run itself is great on it's own. My issue if I have look on it has a whole in Wonder Woman. It throws out amazons are good but rather evil. The were rapists and baby murders. Now I get going with how the greeks felt about the amazons. That's more uncomfortable than Zeus being her father. It's also the Zeus thing that makes Hippoltya look worst. Or the fact Cassie had this origin first. She already has issues with not getting screentime this makes it even more so. One reason why many dislike Zeus origin is because how Azz did the Amazons dirty. It's a remind of that. Plus how more the men played in Azz's run than the women. How much more helpful they were. Hades, Ares and Orion. Were much hopeful than Hera, Aphrodite or Persephone

[WonderScott]

Design-wise I enjoyed the characters and their depictions - the art is lovely.

I’m not a huge fan of a Hippolyta and Zeus as Diana’s parentage, so that didn’t thrill me. And I’m not thrilled that Steve and Etta were removed from the title, just to showcase new characters - that made it out of sync with the other titles I was reading at the time.

Hera was a hoot and great fun and one of the better character arcs in the run. I liked her interactions with Highfather. I’ve always been interested in the New Gods interacting with the Olympians and other deities and pantheons those. It’s a missed opportunity in the DCU, IMHO.

I didn’t hate the First Born as a villain. He was a great deep dive into mythology and the whole son overthrowing his father to start a new era is a mainstay in Greek mythology and occasionally I like to see those themes replay themselves in the context of Wonder Woman.

A a standalone story, I enjoyed it, but as a standalone story it also let me down as it ignored building a Wonder mythos utilizing the vastness of established Wonder Woman characters and lore.

[MajorHoy]

Politely...

I come back every once in a while to see how folks feel about whatever is going on in whatever the current run is, and was honestly pretty surprised to see that this thread is still limping along.

Making a exception for that DC held on to the whole "She Has A Father..." angle (and a twin, but let's just set that can of worms aside...),

But wasn't Jason as Diana's twin Geoff Johns' fault (in his Justice League run), not part of the Azzarello & Chiang story?

It felt like there were initially two versions of Wonder Woman during the first few years of the New52, with the Azzarello/Chiang issues almost isolated from the rest of the New52. (But I also had given up on Geoff Johns' Justice League after the first twelve issues.)

[SiegePerilous02]

A a standalone story, I enjoyed it, but as a standalone story it also let me down as it ignored building a Wonder mythos utilizing the vastness of established Wonder Woman characters and lore.

I've come to the conclusion that if this was a Image comic or other indy publisher doing a Wonder Woman expy instead of Wonder Woman herself, it'd probably be one of my favorite books.

As a Wonder Woman story proper, it has too many weird decisions and drawbacks for me to embrace it. It's gotten easier to enjoy for the things I do like in it now that it is effectively and elseworld though

[Mel Dyer]

Anyone, who takes on writing this title, must feel like they're walking into a hale of bullets, up hill, in a monsoon.

Whoever writes the WW comic has to take an idea about the leading lady and her Wonderverse, hatched almost from whole cloth ..and try to make it look like it's been around, since 1948. That's the challenge, because Robert Kanigher didn't bother with establishing superhero comic basics: post-war narrative premise that makes sense, narrative-relevant supporting cast, narrative-relevant archenemy, iconic city, bla'bla, etcetera. We light into them on every medium, but carrier pigeons, but, the real parties, we should be sore at, are Mr. Kanigher's successors, who don't seem to be interested in hiring the talent to establish any of the basics I mentioned ..or establishing it, themselves, and hiring writers to fill in the blanks or color inside the lines.

When they do, as with Mr. Azzarello, they get barbecued for their trouble.

Brian Azzarello basically made Wonder Woman, a female Highlander. He gave his star-spangled Highlander, a Kurgan, in the First Born. In place of an iconic city, he established Diana's eclectic relationship with her iconic family, the Olympians. It's my opinion that, because we've never really seen the WW comic's original cast made interesting and classic, like Superman's and Spider-Man's, we rejected his side-orders - Zola, Orion, War and Hera - who actually fit the whole Highlander-thing, exceptionally well. Aside from the indisputable fact that he was unbearably, unforgivably slow, telling his story, ..I don't think we ever accepted the idea of Wonder Woman being a Highlanderish adventurer, commanding a mismatched team of imperfect beings, each struggling with their own situations.

I think we rejected Azzarello's idea of WW being a fantasy-horror adventure comic. Period. Nope, nope, nope...not biting.

If he had switched out Zola, Orion, War and Hera, ..with originals Etta, Steve, Hercules and Queen Desira, ..would his run have been better received? I doubt it. If he had moved her to a marble temple on Paradise Island, surrounded by a cast of immortal, flawlessly beautiful, LGBT vegan women, who spoke in whisper sonnets and pooted arias, all wearing togas, with our names emblazoned on them - maybe, not even then! Like every poor soul, who signs on to write WW, Azzarello had a nigh impossible task, pleasing us, ..and all the odds were against him.

There were some glaring fails in the Chazzarello run, which can't be abided. How do you invent a Silver Swan/Doc Cyber combo platter, in Cassandra the Mad, with powers similar, if not equal, to Wonder Woman's - a new supervillainess - and NOT write them into a full-on, earth-shaking brawl? That, doing next to nothing with Cassandra, while giving Porkchop Antichrist the spotlight, is one of those untenable fails. I think, if Azzarello had managed to give the WW comic, one [ONE!], viable, sustainable, iconic and FEMALE arch-nemesis, ..after half a century, without one, ..we might be having a different conversation about him. If Azzarello had given us one memorable battle, with such a villain, we hail him, as the greatest Wonder-scribe, since George Perez.

I would. I would think the Amazon sex pirates, nameless settings, Lennox and unbearably slow pacing ..was worth it, because Wonder Woman finally has an archenemy, as definitive of her, as Luthor is of Superman, ..and as good as anyone else's.

We may not have liked his low-income, flagrantly heterosexual, non-Amazon girl-sidekick, ..sex pirate Amazons, ..jerky, New God companion, ..idiot, British brother, ..nondescript settings [Hated them! Name a building, man!]. We complained that he made Diana a special guest-star, in her own comic, which has NO cast; so almost any addition of characters, who aren't Steve Trevor or a popular Amazon, are crowding the leading lady ..and gotta' go! We can't say he didn't give us everything we say/post, every other day, that we want, only that he didn't give them to us, exactly, as we wanted them.

[AmiMizuno]

Anyone, who takes on writing this title, must feel like they're walking into a hale of bullets, up hill, in a monsoon.

Whoever writes the WW comic has to take an idea about the leading lady and her Wonderverse, hatched almost from whole cloth ..and try to make it look like it's been around, since 1948. That's the challenge, because Robert Kanigher didn't bother with establishing superhero comic basics: post-war narrative premise that makes sense, narrative-relevant supporting cast, narrative-relevant archenemy, iconic city, bla'bla, etcetera. We light into them on every medium, but carrier pigeons, but, the real parties, we should be sore at, are Mr. Kanigher's successors, who don't seem to be interested in hiring the talent to establish any of the basics I mentioned ..or establishing it, themselves, and hiring writers to fill in the blanks or color inside the lines.

When they do, as with Mr. Azzarello, they get barbecued for their trouble.

Brian Azzarello basically made Wonder Woman, a female Highlander. He gave his star-spangled Highlander, a Kurgan, in the First Born. In place of an iconic city, he established Diana's eclectic relationship with her iconic family, the Olympians. It's my opinion that, because we've never really seen the WW comic's original cast made interesting and classic, like Superman's and Spider-Man's, we rejected his side-orders - Zola, Orion, War and Hera - who actually fit the whole Highlander-thing, exceptionally well. Aside from the indisputable fact that he was unbearably, unforgivably slow, telling his story, ..I don't think we ever accepted the idea of Wonder Woman being a Highlanderish adventurer, commanding a mismatched team of imperfect beings, each struggling with their own situations.

I think we rejected Azzarello's idea of WW being a fantasy-horror adventure comic. Period. Nope, nope, nope...not biting.

If he had switched out Zola, Orion, War and Hera, ..with originals Etta, Steve, Hercules and Queen Desira, ..would his run have been better received? I doubt it. If he had moved her to a marble temple on Paradise Island, surrounded by a cast of immortal, flawlessly beautiful, LGBT vegan women, who spoke in whisper sonnets and pooted arias, all wearing togas, with our names emblazoned on them - maybe, not even then! Like every poor soul, who signs on to write WW, Azzarello had a nigh impossible task, pleasing us, ..and all the odds were against him.

There were some glaring fails in the Chazzarello run, which can't be abided. How do you invent a Silver Swan/Doc Cyber combo platter, in Cassandra the Mad, with powers similar, if not equal, to Wonder Woman's - a new supervillainess - and NOT write them into a full-on, earth-shaking brawl? That, doing next to nothing with Cassandra, while giving Porkchop Antichrist the spotlight, is one of those untenable fails. I think, if Azzarello had managed to give the WW comic, one [ONE!], viable, sustainable, iconic and FEMALE arch-nemesis, ..after half a century, without one, ..we might be having a different conversation about him. If Azzarello had given us one memorable battle, with such a villain, we hail him, as the greatest Wonder-scribe, since George Perez.

I would. I would think the Amazon sex pirates, nameless settings, Lennox and unbearably slow pacing ..was worth it, because Wonder Woman finally has an archenemy, as definitive of her, as Luthor is of Superman, ..and as good as anyone else's.

We may not have liked his low-income, flagrantly heterosexual, non-Amazon girl-sidekick, ..sex pirate Amazons, ..jerky, New God companion, ..idiot, British brother, ..nondescript settings [Hated them! Name a building, man!]. We complained that he made Diana a special guest-star, in her own comic, which has NO cast; so almost any addition of characters, who aren't Steve Trevor or a popular Amazon, are crowding the leading lady ..and gotta' go! We can't say he didn't give us everything we say/post, every other day, that we want, only that he didn't give them to us, exactly, as we wanted them.

Some parts people were find with but the issue is Diana was a guest star. It's not that I disliked. I liked that we got to see what Diana did in her downtime. However, Rapist and Baby killers. I wouldn't have mind if there were a good amount of Amazons doing it but the fact the whole Island did this and the fact that many children bullied Diana. Really is the issue. Diana felt alone. There were things I liked. I did enjoy the birthday thing. I liked Hera. The Horror aspect can be added. But Diana even before New 52 started has the issue of adding characters and dumping them. Like what happened to the sons. All dead.

[WonderLight789]

Anyone, who takes on writing this title, must feel like they're walking into a hale of bullets, up hill, in a monsoon.

Whoever writes the WW comic has to take an idea about the leading lady and her Wonderverse, hatched almost from whole cloth ..and try to make it look like it's been around, since 1948. That's the challenge, because Robert Kanigher didn't bother with establishing superhero comic basics: post-war narrative premise that makes sense, narrative-relevant supporting cast, narrative-relevant archenemy, iconic city, bla'bla, etcetera. We light into them on every medium, but carrier pigeons, but, the real parties, we should be sore at, are Mr. Kanigher's successors, who don't seem to be interested in hiring the talent to establish any of the basics I mentioned ..or establishing it, themselves, and hiring writers to fill in the blanks or color inside the lines.

When they do, as with Mr. Azzarello, they get barbecued for their trouble.

Brian Azzarello basically made Wonder Woman, a female Highlander. He gave his star-spangled Highlander, a Kurgan, in the First Born. In place of an iconic city, he established Diana's eclectic relationship with her iconic family, the Olympians. It's my opinion that, because we've never really seen the WW comic's original cast made interesting and classic, like Superman's and Spider-Man's, we rejected his side-orders - Zola, Orion, War and Hera - who actually fit the whole Highlander-thing, exceptionally well. Aside from the indisputable fact that he was unbearably, unforgivably slow, telling his story, ..I don't think we ever accepted the idea of Wonder Woman being a Highlanderish adventurer, commanding a mismatched team of imperfect beings, each struggling with their own situations.

I think we rejected Azzarello's idea of WW being a fantasy-horror adventure comic. Period. Nope, nope, nope...not biting.

If he had switched out Zola, Orion, War and Hera, ..with originals Etta, Steve, Hercules and Queen Desira, ..would his run have been better received? I doubt it. If he had moved her to a marble temple on Paradise Island, surrounded by a cast of immortal, flawlessly beautiful, LGBT vegan women, who spoke in whisper sonnets and pooted arias, all wearing togas, with our names emblazoned on them - maybe, not even then! Like every poor soul, who signs on to write WW, Azzarello had a nigh impossible task, pleasing us, ..and all the odds were against him.

There were some glaring fails in the Chazzarello run, which can't be abided. How do you invent a Silver Swan/Doc Cyber combo platter, in Cassandra the Mad, with powers similar, if not equal, to Wonder Woman's - a new supervillainess - and NOT write them into a full-on, earth-shaking brawl? That, doing next to nothing with Cassandra, while giving Porkchop Antichrist the spotlight, is one of those untenable fails. I think, if Azzarello had managed to give the WW comic, one [ONE!], viable, sustainable, iconic and FEMALE arch-nemesis, ..after half a century, without one, ..we might be having a different conversation about him. If Azzarello had given us one memorable battle, with such a villain, we hail him, as the greatest Wonder-scribe, since George Perez.

I would. I would think the Amazon sex pirates, nameless settings, Lennox and unbearably slow pacing ..was worth it, because Wonder Woman finally has an archenemy, as definitive of her, as Luthor is of Superman, ..and as good as anyone else's.

We may not have liked his low-income, flagrantly heterosexual, non-Amazon girl-sidekick, ..sex pirate Amazons, ..jerky, New God companion, ..idiot, British brother, ..nondescript settings [Hated them! Name a building, man!]. We complained that he made Diana a special guest-star, in her own comic, which has NO cast; so almost any addition of characters, who aren't Steve Trevor or a popular Amazon, are crowding the leading lady ..and gotta' go! We can't say he didn't give us everything we say/post, every other day, that we want, only that he didn't give them to us, exactly, as we wanted them.

The solution to what you said willl never be the azz aproach. Where a lot of WW's classic lore and mythos are changed. Her origin, the amazons. And where she is just a guest star in her own book. If you change WW with any other greek mythology based character, and the story in azz run wouldn't change at all. You do not make WW and her world ''cool'' By literally taking away the main focus from her and her lore.

[Pinsir]

It's still the best run of the 21st century.

[numberthirty]

But wasn't Jason as Diana's twin Geoff Johns' fault (in his Justice League run), not part of the Azzarello & Chiang story?

It felt like there were initially two versions of Wonder Woman during the first few years of the New52, with the Azzarello/Chiang issues almost isolated from the rest of the New52. (But I also had given up on Geoff Johns' Justice League after the first twelve issues.)

Well, that's sorta the thing...

I can totally get the "Why?..." behind DC wanting to do away with what was a rather self-contained "New52..." story.

That said, it sorta hobbles the idea that it was all a lie(or whatever they wound up trying to say that it was...) if an actual physical remnant of it exists and is provably Diana's brother.

I just never got leaving him in the equation. Really odd choice.

[Korath]

It's still the best run of the 21st century.

Yes. Yes it was, and somehow i now just see it as a perfect Elseworld story. Main line WW can go doing whatever bland and uninspired story it wants with her "cast" and her "iconic" nemesis, the Cheetah, I'll just re-read it personally.