View Poll Results: Judged by the crieria in post 1, how do you rate Azzarello's Wonder Woman?

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  • A Fantastic, gripping. You cant wait to read it each month and reread it over and over for pleasure.

    34 41.46%
  • B Good. Ups & downs but you look forward to it every month

    9 10.98%
  • C Satisfactory. You enjoy reading it. There are some things you'd change.

    10 12.20%
  • D Unimpressed. You're still buying for completenss or just because its WW. Much you would change.

    9 10.98%
  • E Not for you. Maybe you've dropped it & just visit the forums now.

    20 24.39%
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  1. #91
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Brian Azzarello's just taking too damn long to tell this story. Period...

    This month will be the first, since deciding to drop the comic in January, that I am not moved to give in and sneak a peek on Comixology. Azzarello has taken so long to tell the story and left major characters, like Lennox and Cassandra, so undeveloped, that I honestly don't care how he ends his layer-cake arc. I haven't felt this cheated, jerked around and betrayed by a writer, ..since Gail Simone gave Achilles a skinny realtor boyfriend and moved him into a Beverly Hills mansion. I barely care if Azzarello's Wonder Woman lives or dies.

    Furthermore, it doesn't help that Cliff Chiang can't illustrate an action comic. Wonder Woman's first scrap with Orion, after months building up buzz about Orion's entry into the story, ..wrapped on one page. One page, and this clash between two comic book legends was OVER! When he could show Cassandra leaping down from a steel platform to another, he draws her taking an elevator. He takes half a page to show Zola looking out a window, while most of his action sequences appear short, rushed and boring.

    I still think Azzarello is a genius and love that he's given Wonder Woman a GREAT supporting cast, new VILLAINS and a cool, new Wonderverse to operate in. At its best, his Wonder Woman reads like a female Doc Savage or Modesty Blaise in girl-hero costume. However, his aversion to developing the backgrounds of major characters, like Cassandra and Lennox (no last names given), coupled with his excruciatingly slow-paced, wasteful storytelling, with nearly entire issues spent standing around a bar or an apartment, ..TALKING, ..make it nearly impossible to maintain interest in his stories.

    Just don't care, anymore. Eagerly looking forward to Brian Azzarello's and Cliff Chiang's departure from Wonder Woman and picking up their run in trade paperback.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Brian Azzarello's just taking too damn long to tell this story. Period...

    This month will be the first, since deciding to drop the comic in January, that I am not moved to give in and sneak a peek on Comixology. Azzarello has taken so long to tell the story and left major characters, like Lennox and Cassandra, so undeveloped, that I honestly don't care how he ends his layer-cake arc. I haven't felt this cheated, jerked around and betrayed by a writer, ..since Gail Simone gave Achilles a skinny realtor boyfriend and moved him into a Beverly Hills mansion. I barely care if Azzarello's Wonder Woman lives or dies.

    Furthermore, it doesn't help that Cliff Chiang can't illustrate an action comic. Wonder Woman's first scrap with Orion, after months building up buzz about Orion's entry into the story, ..wrapped on one page. One page, and this clash between two comic book legends was OVER! When he could show Cassandra leaping down from a steel platform to another, he draws her taking an elevator. He takes half a page to show Zola looking out a window, while most of his action sequences appear short, rushed and boring.

    I still think Azzarello is a genius and love that he's given Wonder Woman a GREAT supporting cast, new VILLAINS and a cool, new Wonderverse to operate in. At its best, his Wonder Woman reads like a female Doc Savage or Modesty Blaise in girl-hero costume. However, his aversion to developing the backgrounds of major characters, like Cassandra and Lennox (no last names given), coupled with his excruciatingly slow-paced, wasteful storytelling, with nearly entire issues spent standing around a bar or an apartment, ..TALKING, ..make it nearly impossible to maintain interest in his stories.

    Just don't care, anymore. Eagerly looking forward to Brian Azzarello's and Cliff Chiang's departure from Wonder Woman and picking up their run in trade paperback.
    I think there is much here that has merit, especially with the lack of depth in the supporting characters.

    This actually reads like the comic book adaptation of a movie that itself has been adapted from a full length novel. There is so much that you don't know about these characters, even after they have been in the book for years.

    The Firstborn is possibly the most two dimensional villain I have ever seen not just a WW comic, but ANY comic. "I was an orphan raised by hyenas, and now I hate the universe."

    His backstory is like an insult to hyenas.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    His backstory is like an insult to hyenas.
    LOL. That's a funny line; I love it!

    But hyenas can rest easy. The Villains' Month issue makes clear that the hyenas didn't teach him to hate; they don't know how to hate.

    He becomes hateful in large part because he never forgets anything--even from infancy (as we discovered in issue 24, if I remember right); so he remembers being abandoned by his father. He's the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy; in trying to stop his son from becoming his successor, Zeus made his son into his successor--and into a monster.
    Last edited by Silvanus; 05-13-2014 at 01:11 PM.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Brian Azzarello's just taking too damn long to tell this story. Period...

    This month will be the first, since deciding to drop the comic in January, that I am not moved to give in and sneak a peek on Comixology. Azzarello has taken so long to tell the story and left major characters, like Lennox and Cassandra, so undeveloped, that I honestly don't care how he ends his layer-cake arc. I haven't felt this cheated, jerked around and betrayed by a writer, ..since Gail Simone gave Achilles a skinny realtor boyfriend and moved him into a Beverly Hills mansion. I barely care if Azzarello's Wonder Woman lives or dies.

    Furthermore, it doesn't help that Cliff Chiang can't illustrate an action comic. Wonder Woman's first scrap with Orion, after months building up buzz about Orion's entry into the story, ..wrapped on one page. One page, and this clash between two comic book legends was OVER! When he could show Cassandra leaping down from a steel platform to another, he draws her taking an elevator. He takes half a page to show Zola looking out a window, while most of his action sequences appear short, rushed and boring.

    I still think Azzarello is a genius and love that he's given Wonder Woman a GREAT supporting cast, new VILLAINS and a cool, new Wonderverse to operate in. At its best, his Wonder Woman reads like a female Doc Savage or Modesty Blaise in girl-hero costume. However, his aversion to developing the backgrounds of major characters, like Cassandra and Lennox (no last names given), coupled with his excruciatingly slow-paced, wasteful storytelling, with nearly entire issues spent standing around a bar or an apartment, ..TALKING, ..make it nearly impossible to maintain interest in his stories.

    Just don't care, anymore. Eagerly looking forward to Brian Azzarello's and Cliff Chiang's departure from Wonder Woman and picking up their run in trade paperback.
    I agree with most of your points. The underdevelopment of important villains and side characters, the not sharing of info on anything, the anti-climactic action, the wasting of space on things that are not important and expanding the story so much that it becomes a chore to read.

  5. #95
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    The Firstborn is possibly the most two dimensional villain I have ever seen not just a WW comic, but ANY comic. "I was an orphan raised by hyenas, and now I hate the universe."...His backstory is like an insult to hyenas.
    Funniest damned thing I've read in a WEEK. You are the gift that can't stop giving, Brett-C1.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    I'm sure someone will do it again at that time, and if it's positive about Azz's run, some will say that it's biased in his direction because his readers haven't left yet. If it's negative about his run, some will say it's biased against him because his readers have already left. Meanwhile, at best it will only be telling us what we, the CBR Wonder Woman forum membership, think of the run--and we tend to tell each other that anyway (though some of us, like me, tend to do so more verbosely and incessantly than others). We're not necessarily a representative sample of all Wonder Woman readers or potential readers, so I sometimes wonder what these polls are really supposed to prove. But even without proving anything, they can still be good fun.

    By the way, did anyone post this poll to Facebook or another forum? If so, nothing wrong with that, of course! It's good to try to get more diverse respondents. I'm just still curious about why it got more respondents than the other poll.


    After approximately 24 hours, my poll in Christie Marston's Share the Wonder group is telling a different story:


    5 Stars = 8%
    4 Stars = 0%
    3 Stars = 4%
    2 Stars = 19%
    1 Star = 69%
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    After approximately 24 hours, my poll in Christie Marston's Share the Wonder group is telling a different story:


    5 Stars = 8%
    4 Stars = 0%
    3 Stars = 4%
    2 Stars = 19%
    1 Star = 69%
    Interesting--thought it's kind of what we'd expect, right? Since Christie Marston isn't a big fan of the current run, I would have guessed (correctly, apparently) that a lot of people hanging out in her group night not big fans of the current run either.

    How many voters have you had on your poll so far?

  8. #98
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    I agree with most of your points. The underdevelopment of important villains and side characters, the not sharing of info on anything, the anti-climactic action, the wasting of space on things that are not important and expanding the story so much that it becomes a chore to read.
    Basically, Mr. Azzarello's minimalist, isolationist approach to storytelling wore me down, over time.

    He's created these wonderful, quirky, multi-faceted characters, whom he locks in a myth-inspired fantasy world, with very defined artistic boundaries - the modern, street-level god thing - then refuses to give us anything more than their names, ranks and serial numbers. If he isn't going to give us anymore goods on Lennox, Cassandra, Zola or the other characters, you'd think we could, at least, see his mod-god cast, including Wondy herself interacting with something or someone outside of it. Perhaps, this is where the more intriguing of Wonder Woman's non-myth villains might play a role - Doctor Cyber, the Cheetah or the Adjudicator, maybe.

    Even Giganta.

    Because of these idiosyncrasies, the really ingenious uniqueness of the stage that Azzarello has created for his stories gets a little stale and exhausting to read, over time. Like a stagnant, smelly pond that you don't want to swim in, anymore.

    I miss the best moments of this comic. I really do.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 05-13-2014 at 01:10 PM.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  9. #99
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    Interesting--thought it's kind of what we'd expect, right? Since Christie Marston isn't a big fan of the current run, I would have guessed (correctly, apparently) that a lot of people hanging out in her group night not big fans of the current run either.

    How many voters have you had on your poll so far?

    26 people have voted so far. I don't think Christie not liking Azz's run equates to people who belong to her group also not liking it as she rarely voices her opinion on Azz's run. In fact, the only time I've seen her talk about Azz's run is when she's asked about it so it's not like the group is full of anti-Azz propaganda.
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  10. #100
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Because of these idiosyncrasies, the really ingenious uniqueness of the stage that Azzarello has created for his stories gets a little stale and exhausting to read, over time. Like a stagnant, smelly pond that you don't want to swim in, anymore.

    Sick but funny!
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  11. #101
    Incredible Member Black Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Brian Azzarello's just taking too damn long to tell this story. Period...

    This month will be the first, since deciding to drop the comic in January, that I am not moved to give in and sneak a peek on Comixology. Azzarello has taken so long to tell the story and left major characters, like Lennox and Cassandra, so undeveloped, that I honestly don't care how he ends his layer-cake arc. I haven't felt this cheated, jerked around and betrayed by a writer, ..since Gail Simone gave Achilles a skinny realtor boyfriend and moved him into a Beverly Hills mansion. I barely care if Azzarello's Wonder Woman lives or dies.

    Furthermore, it doesn't help that Cliff Chiang can't illustrate an action comic. Wonder Woman's first scrap with Orion, after months building up buzz about Orion's entry into the story, ..wrapped on one page. One page, and this clash between two comic book legends was OVER! When he could show Cassandra leaping down from a steel platform to another, he draws her taking an elevator. He takes half a page to show Zola looking out a window, while most of his action sequences appear short, rushed and boring.

    I still think Azzarello is a genius and love that he's given Wonder Woman a GREAT supporting cast, new VILLAINS and a cool, new Wonderverse to operate in. At its best, his Wonder Woman reads like a female Doc Savage or Modesty Blaise in girl-hero costume. However, his aversion to developing the backgrounds of major characters, like Cassandra and Lennox (no last names given), coupled with his excruciatingly slow-paced, wasteful storytelling, with nearly entire issues spent standing around a bar or an apartment, ..TALKING, ..make it nearly impossible to maintain interest in his stories.

    Just don't care, anymore. Eagerly looking forward to Brian Azzarello's and Cliff Chiang's departure from Wonder Woman and picking up their run in trade paperback.
    so true especially the disappearance of zeus story line oh well. I do agree i wish his world and character building was better, but then again no series is perfect.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Not only that but at least most characters of what the original creator wanted it is there. Much of there myths are kept but than Wonder Woman's myths is gone. ALl superheroes and their supporting cast still stand for something but WMM voice is not here. Here is the empowerment by the amazons or the love. They are barbaric and seem to and can't think for themselves. For example the end of 30 shows that they all at least think the same. They have no originality. This story was told in Xena. better god designs and Artemis is weak and dumb. She is the hunter yet only is giving a moon necklace. Not only that but the women are unless and the men have more importance. (Other than Hera).

  13. #103
    BANNED Tangent Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    The Firstborn is possibly the most two dimensional villain I have ever seen not just a WW comic, but ANY comic. "I was an orphan raised by hyenas, and now I hate the universe."

    His backstory is like an insult to hyenas.
    "Two-dimensional"? You give First-Born far too much credit. He's a one-note, torture porn variant Masters of The Universe villain.

    Filmation cartoon-level of characterization.

  14. #104
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    In general I've been underwhelmed.... I was excited to read the new take-- a blond Hippolyta! I thought it would be a melding of a lot of the best of her past elements (as they keep trying to do pre NU). But as the story unfolded (and dragggggggggggggggged along) I just kept becoming more and more disappointed. It's pretty much the only comic I'm buying post NU, and I flip though it in 10 seconds. There's no content, no depth. Maybe it's the decompressed storytelling that I just can't stand (I thought one of Didio's promises for the NU was no writing to fill trades?!?)

    There are several issues I have (mainly the Zeus is her father things, and the Amazons...the lack of gold/coldness to her colors) but mostly what I feel is that there we were just dropped into the middle of everything. Nothing explained about her past or her origin, yet so many elements that contradicted past events. Too much of a focus on this extended "family" (which still could have been told, with little change, had she not been a demigod) Too little action for a comic (though I'm not needed a slugfest 24/7)

    No building upon her specific world elements... if she needed to be rebooted, then reboot from the beginning. Start there. Build her world, reboot her supporting cast (new takes on Steve, Etta, etc) and villains while adding new ones to the mix. I feel like everyone else has got to use those characters outside of her book, and they should have been introduced in hers first. The whole things has felt slapdash to me...

    Matt

    and her freaking lasso doesn't even glow...it should always glow...

  15. #105
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangent Man View Post
    "Two-dimensional"? You give First-Born far too much credit. He's a one-note, torture porn variant Masters of The Universe villain.

    Filmation cartoon-level of characterization.
    Different writers have attempted to supply new Big Bads because they can't seem to cast any of her classic villains in the role. Eric Luke's Devastation was the first. Gail Simone didn't use that one, but created a very similar Genocide. Despite the gender change, First Born's the weakest and most generic of all three of these generic villains in visuals, motives, and abilities. Big, half nekkid and angry, like a pale Hulk or Orion on a bad hair day. Even if you like the redesigned Olympians, this falls short of the mark.

    Would it have been too much to ask to tie Cheetah to the Olympians somehow and let her fill the role? (Hyenas have about as much to do with ancient Greece as cheetahs do.) Or even Baron Blitzkrieg. Something that would remind us that this is supposed to be a Wonder Woman comic.
    "At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

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