... does not get enough respect.

[DrNewGod]

In spite of my moniker, The New Gods illuminated some of The King's limitations. An epic villain but a bit of a mess in some regards.

Of course, like The Eternals, it was meant to be a self-contained story that got stretched beyond its inherent limits by editors.

[shooshoomanjoe]

You have no idea what you are talking about. You really need to understand how much of the creating, plotting and heavy lifting Kirby did.
And how much Kirby did before Stan started scripting Kirby's stories.

Like I said, those Kirby Pacific Comics were horrible.

I fixed it for you

Early Marvel universe had several artists/plotters but only one great, mighty, awesome writer.

[babyblob]

I think Kirby and Ditko did more to make Stan Lee a success than the other way around. What Stan Lee was good at was promotion. He was a better pitch man then he was a writer because both Kirby and Ditko did a lot with the the work from Stan's ideas. Stan put in most of the script after the art work was long done by those two and other artists.

So without those two making Stan's Ideas come to like Marvel Comics would not have been where it was. Not saying Lee did not have talent because he did. But it was very much a team effort and outside promotions (Which Lee was a god at) Kirby and Ditko carried most of the weight in the early days.

[Kirby101]

Didn’t Stan sometimes just put dialogue in after Jack had draw the comic from a few of Stan’s vague ideas, so effectively Kirby had done the script quite often?

By script, I meant just dialog. Most of the plotting was done by the artist, sometimes with little or no input from Stan. Every great idea in FF was Kirby, including the team itself. Ditko started coming up with everything about halfway through Spider-Man when he and Stan weren't talking. Stan first saw the story after the art was done. Dr. Strange was all Ditko, and Stan said as much in several interviews. Wally Wood left DD when Stan refused to give him writing credit, even though all the story was his. It goes on and on.
Stan's later writings on the origins of Marvel characters is pure self-serving BS. And a corporate lie to keep deny the rights to the actual creators.

I encourage anyone to know about the real history of those years, and not Stan's company version, read Bob Beerbohm on Facebook.

[Kirby101]

Like I said, those Kirby Pacific Comics were horrible.

When he was in his 80s and not in good health. And still Captain Victory is fun with some amazing concepts.
After Stan, Kirby created the Fourth World, Darkseid, Kamandi, the Demon, The Eternals...characters still in use. What did Stan create after Kirby?

[Zauriel]

When he was in his 80s and not in good health. And still Captain Victory is fun with some amazing concepts.
After Stan, Kirby created the Fourth World, Darkseid, Kamandi, the Demon, The Eternals...characters still in use. What did Stan create after Kirby?

Stan Lee created Ravage 2099 and Just Imagine DC Universe.

[shooshoomanjoe]

When he was in his 80s and not in good health. And still Captain Victory is fun with some amazing concepts.
After Stan, Kirby created the Fourth World, Darkseid, Kamandi, the Demon, The Eternals...characters still in use. What did Stan create after Kirby?

What did Stan do after his iconic FF run? Although you bring up a good point on Kirby's latter creations for the big two. Like Liefeld's characters, Kirby's characters were improved by other creators. Another reason to call Liefeld the Kirby of the 90s

[Agent Z]

Yamcha, Tien and Krillin from Dragon Ball. Just about anyone that isn't an alien or cyborg in Dragon Ball.

Mei Terumi and Tsunade from Naruto. Though the writing doesn't help.

[Zauriel]

Stilt-Man does not get enough respect. He alone gave Spider-Man and daredevil a helluva hard time. He proved his worth as their opponent. Yet he has been characterized as a lame third-rate villain.

[Kirby101]

What did Stan do after his iconic FF run? Although you bring up a good point on Kirby's latter creations for the big two. Like Liefeld's characters, Kirby's characters were improved by other creators. Another reason to call Liefeld the Kirby of the 90s

The first 100 issues of the FF are still considered one of the greatest runs in the history of comics. And the multitude of characters Kirby created there are still Marvel staples.. Liefeld created one big character, who was **** until others took him over.
The comparison is so disrespectful to a true comic genius.

[Zauriel]

When Steve Ditko left Spider-Man book, John Romita Sr. took over the penciling duties on the book. JR. Sr. was a worthy successor to Steve Ditko. Stan Lee didn't have just Kirby and Ditko. He has other good artists to work with. Wally Wood. Don Heck. John Romita.

Steve Ditko also created a multitude of characters without Stan Lee's input. Blue Beetle. Captain Atom. The Question. Hawk and Dove. The Creeper.

[Riv86672]

MAD Magazine.

They were able to get away w. a lot of social commentary by presenting it in a humorous cartoony format. You don’t really hear ppl talk about them though, other than just being funny.

[SquirrelMan]

What did Stan do after his iconic FF run? Although you bring up a good point on Kirby's latter creations for the big two. Like Liefeld's characters, Kirby's characters were improved by other creators. Another reason to call Liefeld the Kirby of the 90s

Have you even read Kirby's Demon?

[ed2962]

MAD Magazine.

They were able to get away w. a lot of social commentary by presenting it in a humorous cartoony format. You don’t really hear ppl talk about them though, other than just being funny.

Mad Magazine was/is iconic among people of a certain age. But it was during a time when we consumed media in general and print media in particular in a different way. I don't think the Mad audience made the transition to comic stores the same way that Marvel/DC fans did. Plus a lot of the guys who made Mad what it was back in the day have literally passed away. I don't think kids today even know what Mad Magazine was/is. Heck, there's probably more kids out there that know the name Cracked, but they know it was a website/You Tube channel than as a print comic magazine...

[babyblob]

I dont think Madtv helped their image either. Rather then being a show with stuff that mad the magazine so good they just tried to be a low rent SNL. So when you said oh yea the tv show is based off the magazine a lot of people I know went. Well than the magazine had to suck too. The olny thing the tv show did that related to the mag was Spy vs Spy and if I remember right they dropped that a few seasons in.