The Gotham War: Batman vs. Catwoman Crossover

[Bat-Meal]

Oh ya, Azrael with the system was straight up meta human. Dont think anyone in the bat fam could take him out.

He certainly smacked Batwoman around in the 'Tec run, and he was fighting both Cass and Kate at the same time.

[king of hybrids]

Considering the advertising for Outsiders mentions that Kate and Luke are disillusioned with Bruce after this mess, I’m putting them on Selina’s side

[marvelprince]

Just for the record: No one in Batfam would defeat Bruce in 1v1, some can be more work than others. But Bruce is the peak, indisputable.

Sigh, I’ll take the bait. Nightwing should be beating Bruce here. He’s already done it before in a 1 v 1. He’s younger, better trained and as has been stated repeatedly Bruce is not at his peak, his body was pushed too his limited and he’s essentially been in a coma for weeks. Dick should be flipping circles around him, not just getting a lucky shot in.

[Bat-Meal]

Considering the advertising for Outsiders mentions that Kate and Luke are disillusioned with Bruce after this mess, I’m putting them on Selina’s side

Possibly, but not necessarily. I'm still seeing them as fence-sitters after reading this interview though.

Collin Kelly: And what we saw with Luke and Kate was they are two characters who are ready to step outside of that framework. They've seen coming out of Gotham War, coming out of the shadow of the Bat in a very real way. They're over it. They've seen the superheroes and how the superhero system functions: you put them in jail, they get back out… it's just a giant circle. So how do we break that and the same way we break any criminal cycle is with empathy. Is with understanding the victims who are then, in turn, the perpetrators. How do we break that cycle? And that is what the Outsiders are really going to be about.

Jackson Lanzing: And that's the point of archaeology and history in the first place, is to better understand how these things have worked so that we can better understand how to move forward. And so, yeah, we had several backup pitches, we really assumed that this book would never get greenlit, and they cut us off. Ben Abernathy cut us off halfway through the pitch and said, “Guys, you got it. It's done. greenlit. Let's go”.

[saiyan_earthling]

Possibly, but not necessarily. I'm still seeing them as fence-sitters after reading this interview though.

Considering that she's Bruce's cousin, and met when they were kids from The Detective Comics, I have a hunch that while she does agree with Selina, Kate would not take her side, and directly confront Bruce like the other Batmembers. However, she may question him about his mission, and his morals before she leaves for The Outsiders.

[bat1987]

Sigh, I’ll take the bait. Nightwing should be beating Bruce here. He’s already done it before in a 1 v 1. He’s younger, better trained and as has been stated repeatedly Bruce is not at his peak, his body was pushed too his limited and he’s essentially been in a coma for weeks. Dick should be flipping circles around him, not just getting a lucky shot in.

Good point there. Its definitely mentioned several times that Bruce is not at his peak at the moment. Their fight in next issue of Batman should be interesting, and Bruce not being himself both mentally and phisically is def gonna be a factor.
I guess Dick "wins" their sparring in Tom King's grayson run, as stated by Tom King. Tom also made an interesting convo on twitter when he ranked bat family by their martial arts skills and put dick above bruce and getting called out by Snyder and Tynion for being wrong lol.
Regardless I really think that Bruce at his peak beats Nightwing, but in this story it could go either way. That's just my opinion ofc.
Also its funny how this turned into who beats who. Goes to show how bad the story itself is.

[Aahz]

I would put Jason a tier lower than them, he would put more of a fight than he did in this issue though.

I think Jason should be (and imo actually was imo written like that till roughly the DCYou) pretty equal to Dick.

Since the DCYou writers keep hyping up Dicks skills, a treat Jason pretty crappy.

But I think out side of Dick, Jason, Azreal, Cass and Ghost Maker if you want to count him (and Maybe Duke I'm still not really sure what he could actually do with his powers in a fight), all the other Family members have not much of a chance against Bruce in Hand to Hand Combat. He has either a big physical advantage over them, is a more skilled fighter or (in many cases) both.

Btw. I think the "I know their moves because I tought them" also really makes sense for Dick, Tim and Duke, the others have all had pretty extensive Training by people other than Bruce.

[Bat-Meal]

Considering that she's Bruce's cousin, and met when they were kids from The Detective Comics, I have a hunch that while she does agree with Selina, Kate would not take her side, and directly confront Bruce like the other Batmembers. However, she may question him about his mission, and his morals before she leaves for The Outsiders.

Yep, that could work too.

[Konja7]

Good point there. Its definitely mentioned several times that Bruce is not at his peak at the moment. Their fight in next issue of Batman should be interesting, and Bruce not being himself both mentally and phisically is def gonna be a factor.
I guess Dick "wins" their sparring in Tom King's grayson run, as stated by Tom King. Tom also made an interesting convo on twitter when he ranked bat family by their martial arts skills and put dick above bruce and getting called out by Snyder and Tynion for being wrong lol.
Regardless I really think that Bruce at his peak beats Nightwing, but in this story it could go either way. That's just my opinion ofc.
Also its funny how this turned into who beats who. Goes to show how bad the story itself is.

I don't think the quality of the story is really related to that.

I mean, "who beats who" will always happen when someone think a character shouldn't win or loss a battle regardles the quality of the story.

[Felipe Silveira]

Some may be faster (certainly not stronger) or even have more fighting knowledge than Bruce, but none have Bruce's intellect.

[Godlike13]

Hasn't Damian moved past that mentality already?

He's made progress. But writers back track a lot with him. Still Bruce acting like this indulges his unhealthy idea of Batman.

[Arsenal]

Azreal imo could easly when he uses the full power of the Systhem.

And Jason and Dick should be really close to Bruce imo.

And than you have of course Cass.


But the biggest Provlem I see with that fight, is that if you have all of them together against Batman, they should better work together, and have better strategy to fight him.

There’s been to many cases of a mindcontrolled/corrupted/evil multiversial variant of Bruce for them not to be running team drills on how to take Bruce out as a unit.

[Morgoth]

Hasn't Damian moved past that mentality already?

Damian still has the same mindset, as Bruce, when it comes to criminals, the only difference is Damian was willing to kill, while Bruce has no kill rule. They are even equally hypocritical in this regard (when it comes to Selina and Talia, and in Damian's case also Flatline).
There's a reason why DC keeps coming back to setting up Damian as the person, who will get the mantle years later.

[Hulkout42]

Considering that she's Bruce's cousin, and met when they were kids from The Detective Comics, I have a hunch that while she does agree with Selina, Kate would not take her side, and directly confront Bruce like the other Batmembers. However, she may question him about his mission, and his morals before she leaves for The Outsiders.

I thought that was already done when she shot Clayface and started to work with her dad.

[Jackalope89]

I thought that was already done when she shot Clayface and started to work with her dad.

DC has a bad habit of repeating the same kind of storyline. Constantly. Like for Jason, its almost always going against Bruce.