The Gotham War: Batman vs. Catwoman Crossover

[Frontier]

Deconstruction does belong into elseworld stories, not in the main continuity.

I think it's just in the main continuity you need to reconstruct them back and call it a day.

[TooFlyToFail]

Yeah, every writer seems bent on deconstructing Batman even though at this point there is nothing to deconstruct. I'm sure that most people still reading comics would rather have the power fantasy of being Batman played straight.

That's not the problem. It's the inconsistency of the quality of the deconstruction, and the very nature of comics resulting in constant rehashing and few instances of lasting consequences/developments.

Jason is a prime example. How many times has Jason and Bruce fought over the same problems? It's because the cyclical nature of comics keeps the characters from actually growing from those conflicts. Hell, it's why Grayson couldn't stay as Batman; despite that run being very popular and accepted.

Batman's psyche, morals and methods being questioned by his children is fine on its face.

[Godlike13]

Often times writers don't read Batman regularly like it's readers. So when they come on they aren't as desensitized or aware if the readers are desensitized. So they feel their deconstruction of Batman is fresh. And deconstruction is fine if its good, this just isn't very good. Its disjointed, dragged out, and forced. All the character are acting how the writers need to characters to act to force this story rather then having them respond naturally to the story. I think part of of the problem is that Batman needs events, its part of publishing demands, but this wasn't really made to be a event story. I think King ran into this issue, where Snyder excelled at it creating stories with events in mind. A style Tynion adopted for his run.

[Hulkout42]

Fucking hell is this a disjointed mess! I mean do these people talk to one another when they write this crap? Jason is all over the place, first he hates dad, sides with Selina, next he is all this plan was stupid from the start and i want to kill the Joker, finally we have Jason the cowardly vigilante.

Selina, "Jason, you are just using us to get to the Joker." which would be a valid argument if she hadn't used the Bat fam to keep Bruce away while she sprang her band of psycho's from jail. And she knows who Vandal Savage is, but doesn't know he has a daughter? Honestly i will be utterly shocked if they have the big reveal and she still gives Scandal a pass.

Nightwing, the ultimate simp, can't think for himself...how was it he was chosen as the heir to the cape and cowl? Then he decides to take a page from the Batman Lego Movie and revoke the man's computer privileges? The dude has lost everything, his honey, his fam, his money, his company, his home, his paternal father figure and he is losing his mind and yet he is the bad guy in this whole thing?

Barb, takes care of Bruce for 8 weeks while in a coma but can't make sure a major supervillain doesn't rob him of his home? the home where he welcomed all of them as part of his mission and family? And pnly now they worry about the split personality?

[Hulkout42]

At this i have to wonder, of the following three comic characters, who has it worst? Peter Parker, T'Challa or Bruce Wayne? All of them lost family, lost lovers, lost homes, lost trust...but who is currently the number 1 when it comes to being so royally screwed over by the publishers?

[Frontier]

That's not the problem. It's the inconsistency of the quality of the deconstruction, and the very nature of comics resulting in constant rehashing and few instances of lasting consequences/developments.

Jason is a prime example. How many times has Jason and Bruce fought over the same problems? It's because the cyclical nature of comics keeps the characters from actually growing from those conflicts. Hell, it's why Grayson couldn't stay as Batman; despite that run being very popular and accepted.

Batman's psyche, morals and methods being questioned by his children is fine on its face.

I think the execution and frequency are both an issue because at this point it's just damaging the character and making it harder to read about them.

Like they really can't come up with something better to do than Batman going off the rails and his family having to deal with the fallout? Or family drama?

Often times writers don't read Batman regularly like it's readers. So when they come on they're aren't as desensitized or aware if the readers are desensitized. So they feel their deconstruction of Batman is fresh. And deconstruction is fine if its good, this just isn't very good. Its disjointed, dragged out, and forced. All the character are acting how the writers need to characters to act to force this story rather then having them respond naturally to the story. I think part of of the problem is that Batman needs events, its part of publishing demands, but this wasn't really made to be a event story. I think King ran into this issue, where Snyder excelled at it creating stories with events in mind. A style Tynion adopted for his run.

I dunno, it all feels so recent that it's hard to think writers could be coming into it thinking they're doing a "fresh take."

The constant Bat events are hurting the line.

[Coop]

I feel like we've just been getting thrown Morrison off cuts. For like two decades.

Snyder's big Owl story was implying Thomas Wayne Jr was back as I recall. A theory for Dr Hurt in RIP.

King had Flashpoint Batman as the big bad, repurposing the theory/claim that Dr Hurt was Thomas Wayne and making an entire story out of that concept.

And now Zdarsky is going with yet another RIP theory, that Batman is losing his mind and fighting against himself as his ultimate opponent. And it's actually The Batman of Zur En Arrh but in the most pumpkin spice latte basic way, Batman literally having conversations and visions of his alternate personality

[Godlike13]

The constant Bat events are hurting the line.

The industry now depends on these events, like them or not. Its an annual thing, and its going to continue to be an annual thing because they are now relied upon to help move product.

[Aahz]

I feel like we've just been getting thrown Morrison off cuts.

And I think the big problem is, that DC doesn't realize that they don't need writers who want to be the next Grant Morrison. Frank Miller or Allan Moore, but someone who wants to be the next Denny O'Neil, Chuck Dixon or Paul Dini.

[Godlike13]

And I think the big problem is, that DC doesn't realize that they don't need writers who want to be the next Grant Morrison. Frank Miller or Allan Moore, but someone who wants to be the next Denny O'Neil, Chuck Dixon or Paul Dini.

I think DC would take the next of any of those. Unfortunately i don't think they have any control over who a writer might or might not envision themselves as the next of.

[Aahz]

I think DC would take the next of any of those.

Maybe but I think they need to realize the difference, and put the ones from the first category only on elseworlds.

[Hulkout42]

The industry now depends on these events, like them or not. Its an annual thing, and its going to continue to be an annual thing because they are now relied upon to help move product.

I think it has gone beyond an annual thing, i mean knight terrors wasn't even over when this started, before that was failsafe, before that was lazarus planet, before that was dark crisis, before that shadow war, and so on and so on...there is no breathing room anymore.

[Frontier]

And the writing quality is getting worse and worse.

[MajorHoy]

And the writing quality is getting worse and worse.

That might be more that older readers don't like the current styles, especially when compared to what they read when they were younger.

It might be that younger readers like this style of writing. Who knows?

[Frontier]

That might be more that older readers don't like the current styles, especially when compared to what they read when they were younger.

It might be that younger readers like this style of writing. Who knows?

I'd hate to think of younger readers getting their best impressions of the character from this event.