The Gotham War: Batman vs. Catwoman Crossover

[Frontier]

Catwoman #57 Preview
Writer: Tini Howard
Artist: Nico Leon

I love how Howard is writing Bruce having the most cartoonish mental breakdown of all time and Selina is pretty non-plussed by it.

I'd like to think if Bruce was actually having a mental breakdown Jason would want to help him but the way he's being written in this event he probably would enjoy it and just hope Bruce suffers.

"He's a good boyfriend because he enabled me to commit crimes and let me get away with it."

"He wants a good Gotham. Not a healthy one." Spoken like a crime boss.

Thieves Guild? Marvel already has one. Just reminds me how she didn't use Gambit that well in her Excalibur run.

Oh yes, let's teach them how to steal cars. That's totally to the benefit of the city!

Mentally compromised by his own doing. Also, Selina really doesn't come off as a bitter ex to me. She just seems like someone sick of a system punishing the same people they put in bad situations to being with.

More like unintentional consequences.

I dunno, her bringing up the marriage and overlooking her own role in why it didn't happen while being so mad that Batman, for obvious reasons, doesn't go along with her plans seems pretty bitter to me. And she feels like she can get away with it because she tends to avoid punishment from him.

That could be a part of it. But I don't think he was lying when he said that he thought that Batman helps pushes these relatively small-time and (in the big picture) harmless guys to work for the likes of Joker and Bane where they are undoubtedly forced to do more damage.

How does Batman push them to work with them? I feel like that's more on the city than Batman.

Maybe not. Still doesn't mean it's not true, though.

I don't support the death penalty either, but that's a whole different subject. Though kind of funny in light of how often it comes up with people wondering why the Supervillains are still breathing.

*shrugs*

I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

Well, if it's making everybody else look bad to set up Damian's standing as Robin.

I would never say that Gotham doesn't need a Batman. But what I would say is that Bruce could've used his influence to help influence public policy more so people wouldn't have to turn to crime to begin with. We haven't seen this since NML and I think it's high time that we see this sort of story again.

I think we have seen that, it's just not in-your-face about it. And to pretend like it never happens is just rewriting history.

All I'm saying is prioritize. People over property.

But people are involved in robberies. Like...having their stuff taken by thieves? Getting mugged?

But...but...I thought Batman feels that all laws are laws?!? lol

Well, Frank Miller Batman thinks he's a criminal but by that standard all Superheroes are criminals .

[Mantis-Ray]

All things considered, I feel like re-reading Under the Red Hood now

Though I'm reminded Jason is kinda pussy-footing this considering when he tried this he was trying to take control of harder crimes like the drug trade.

Managing a bunch of amateur cat-burglars feels kinda beneath him.

[Kyrielle]

But people are involved in robberies. Like...having their stuff taken by thieves? Getting mugged?

My understanding is that while theft is a property crime, robberies and muggings would be classified as violent crimes (theft by violence or threat of violence). Catwoman is solving for reduced violent crime in the way she knows how - replacing violent crime with non-violent crime. LOL - and mitigating tax avoidance by essentially making them pay their taxes with the requirement to invest 15% back into the community.

(And do I really have to say that NOOOOOOOONE of this is real world compliant? Probably not, but I will.)

[dietrich]

Well, if it's making everybody else look bad to set up Damian's standing as Robin.

Wasn't this already in the works when DC advertised Tim's Robin series with the line move over Damian! The world's favourite Robin is back!

Don't think they'd let a line like that go into a public promotional material for an upcoming title if they cared remotely about Damian's standing as Robin.

Williamson's Batman and Robin was announced months back so we already knew going in that it was a given he was going to side with Bruce for reasons that have nothing to do with his character and everything to do with the fact that they have a team up series out during Gotham War

Batman and Robin by Williamson was last minute. Robin 2021 was supposed to continue after Lazarus Planet. Gotham War was already being set up in batman and catwoman before Williamson decided to write a title with Bruce and Damian instead of picking up Robin 2021.

[Mantis-Ray]

My understanding is that while theft is a property crime, robberies and muggings would be classified as violent crimes (theft by violence or threat of violence). Catwoman is solving for reduced violent crime in the way she knows how - replacing violent crime with non-violent crime. LOL - and mitigating tax avoidance by essentially making them pay their taxes with the requirement to invest 15% back into the community.

(And do I really have to say that NOOOOOOOONE of this is real world compliant? Probably not, but I will.)

I think the funniest thing about all this is that Selina doesn't even practice what she preaches.

Very many of her heists go wrong or at least ends up going violent with her nearly dying or at least getting hurt. Sure there were robberies where she nets the score without anyone aware, but the ratio to of that to violent heists is not high enough to make it honest to say thievery has no risk no matter how good she is.

And the fact she is so good makes the fact it regularly goes wrong an even bigger issue as all her minions obviously lack her plot armor skills.

[Saithor]

Also ignoring the number of villains of Gotham who probably could not give a crap if Selina is hiring all the low-rent henchmen. Do villains like Firefly, Bane, Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, Professor Pyg, or Scarecrow even need henchman regularly?

I wouldn’t be shocked if it gets revealed later she only did this specifically to screw with Sionis.

[Frontier]

Also ignoring the number of villains of Gotham who probably could not give a crap if Selina is hiring all the low-rent henchmen. Do villains like Firefly, Bane, Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, Professor Pyg, or Scarecrow even need henchman regularly?

I wouldn’t be shocked if it gets revealed later she only did this specifically to screw with Sionis.

Hatter straight up brainwashes people. Pyg has dollotrons.

Bane's sycophants follows him without him needing to hire anybody.

[Saithor]

Hatter straight up brainwashes people. Pyg has dollotrons.

Bane's sycophants follows him without him needing to hire anybody.

Joker essentially has a cult that follows him around. Al ghul’s are purely ideological. I think the only this honestly affects who are big names are Sionis, Penguin, and Riddler, and Penguin is gone. Riddler is typically not that dangerous, except when they use him as a Jigsaw expy, and then he typically also ends up using machines instead

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Looking at that preview, I really hate how they keep writing Jason as a spoiled brat, throwing a fit to stick it up to the old man.

And once again, solicits reveal this to be a massive waste of time, Catwoman is coming to Bruce's rescue in December's Detective Comics.

[dietrich]

My understanding is that while theft is a property crime, robberies and muggings would be classified as violent crimes (theft by violence or threat of violence). Catwoman is solving for reduced violent crime in the way she knows how - replacing violent crime with non-violent crime. LOL - and mitigating tax avoidance by essentially making them pay their taxes with the requirement to invest 15% back into the community.

(And do I really have to say that NOOOOOOOONE of this is real world compliant? Probably not, but I will.)

Theft, robbing, at home muggings. Different words for the same thing. Properties have owners and owners usually will resist when strangers try to take their property. That's when situations turns violent.

As we saw last issue.

Majority of violent crimes aren't a result of poor henchmen mugging to survive so she's just solving on type of crime poorly and in the short term. It's not a solution.

Investing 15& back into the community. Why not start a savings scheme so her students can build up a nest egg for future small business start up? Oh yes, that would require actually taking the time to teach them a trade skill.

[twobit]

When everyone was having their discussion about Bruce’s mental health…did any one of them offer any solutions to help him. No…it was about the crime rate and letting people go and how he is getting more aggressive, but in control. Catwoman and Jason kept antagonizing him…poking the bear…Non of Batman’s kids offered any other solution or have offered any other help. They didn’t call in Clark or Diana or J’onn to help him. And when Barbara is listing off what happened to Bruce they seemed to forget that he died in Lazuras Planet saving Damien’s life and the world. That the people of Gotham gave parts of their souls to save him. If you look at at Catwoman did a masterful,job of destroying the man she claims to love. She took him on vacation and his”father” was killed. She stole all of his money when Bruce was rebuilding Gotham with it….giving it mostly To Lucius Fox who has yet to return it. She didn’t show up to the wedding..he did. She took on a lover during their break…he suffered greatly because of Selina not telling him Penguin was alive. He was brutally beaten by Failsafe, sent through the multiverse to,lose his hand and find out Selina cares more about herself and life style than him….felt betrayed by her for lying about Penguin…dies during Lazarus Planet, and is unmercifully beaten up in Knight Terrors. And not one of his kids thought to get him some help. That’s why this series rings hollow to me.

[Aahz]

Joker essentially has a cult that follows him around. Al ghul’s are purely ideological. I think the only this honestly affects who are big names are Sionis, Penguin, and Riddler, and Penguin is gone. Riddler is typically not that dangerous, except when they use him as a Jigsaw expy, and then he typically also ends up using machines instead

Even Riddler does iirc often crimes without henchman.

Sionis is currently the only one really active one with a lot of henchman.

I also don't think that the various gang and crime families in Gotham would join Selina.

[Astralabius]

Bruce hasn't exactly been helpful if they have gone through crisis either to be fair.
He has previously beaten them up if they were unwell or mostly ignored the problem until Alfred/someone else solved it for him or the problem somehow resolved itself like with Damian.

[Frontier]

Even Riddler does iirc often crimes without henchman.

Sionis is currently the only one really active one with a lot of henchman.

I also don't think that the various gang and crime families in Gotham would join Selina.

Riddler also has Quiz and Query who are basically ride or die sidekicks for him.

[dietrich]

Bruce hasn't exactly been helpful if they have gone through crisis either to be fair.
He has previously beaten them up if they were unwell or mostly ignored the problem until Alfred/someone else solved it for him or the problem somehow resolved itself like with Damian.

The Batkids aren't Bruce. They are all to varying degrees more emotionally intelligent and more capable in dealing with emotional crisis than Bruce. Children usually learn from their parent's short comings and improve so just because Bruce hasn't helped them in their crisis doesn't mean they shouldn't help or worry about his mental health and well being.

They should have and I expected better from them because I know they have done better in the past. This just bad writing.