The Gotham War: Batman vs. Catwoman Crossover

[Kurus]

I'll never get over the Batfamily eventually warming up to a plan that involved letting people commit crimes for class reasons.

That’s the best reason to commit crimes. There’s a reason the story of Robin Hood resonates to this day. The problem with Selina’s plan is there just isn’t enough thought put in to it, but you could say that about the entire event. And you can’t blame Selina and dick for Bruce going crazy, cause he was clearly losing his marbles before this happened in 136.

[lilyrose]

Did Bruce and Selina break up or not? Didn't seem like it

[Frontier]

That’s the best reason to commit crimes. There’s a reason the story of Robin Hood resonates to this day. The problem with Selina’s plan is there just isn’t enough thought put in to it, but you could say that about the entire event. And you can’t blame Selina and dick for Bruce going crazy, cause he was clearly losing his marbles before this happened in 136.

At least Robin Hood had noble intentions, but everyone with sense called out how the criminals would eventually turn on her and they did.

[Rac7d*]

Did Bruce and Selina break up or not? Didn't seem like it

Does it matter
This event confirmed they Been dating since dick was a child on and off. What they are now is what they will always be. Nothing more or less. No point in being invested in that kind of relationship.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

That’s the best reason to commit crimes. There’s a reason the story of Robin Hood resonates to this day. The problem with Selina’s plan is there just isn’t enough thought put in to it, but you could say that about the entire event. And you can’t blame Selina and dick for Bruce going crazy, cause he was clearly losing his marbles before this happened in 136.

Bruce was under a very stressful situation but it was holding up together until Selina came around with her brilliant plan and made everyone but Damian turn on Bruce just because again, **** rich people, even though all of them (barring Jason and Selina) come from wealthy backgrounds. It's no wonder that Bruce snapped.

[Godlike13]

Btw. I don't even think that the Batafmily was that much smaller than.
They had at the peak iirc:
- Bruce
- Dick
- Barbara
- Tim
- Cass
- Steph
- Selina
- Jean Paul
- Helena
- Sasha Bordeaux (if you want to count her)

Who all had quite a lot of appeances.

That’s a 10 year span mind you. They slowly built to that peak. And Steph, Helena, and Sasha weren’t Batfamily. Generally speaking the consistent core remained simple it was 1 Batman, 1 Batgirl, 1 Robin, 1 adult Robin, and 1 adult Batgirl. Vs 2 Batmans (is Jace still a thing?), 2 Robins, 3 Batgirls, and I’ve lost count of the sudo-Nightwings at this point.

[Kurus]

Bruce was under a very stressful situation but it was holding up together until Selina came around with her brilliant plan and made everyone but Damian turn on Bruce just because again, **** rich people, even though all of them (barring Jason and Selina) come from wealthy backgrounds. It's no wonder that Bruce snapped.

He was literally hallucinating the entire bat family burning up. And the bat family only turned on him to save Jason from getting his ass beat again. Before that they were neutral, while Bruce was unnecessarily escalating the situation by waging a one man war on Selina’s thieves, instead of trying to talk it out and compromise like a rational human being. His whole must stop all crimes thing is also massively hypocritical coming from a vigilante.

[Mantis-Ray]

He was literally hallucinating the entire bat family burning up. And the bat family only turned on him to save Jason from getting his ass beat again. Before that they were neutral, while Bruce was unnecessarily escalating the situation by waging a one man war on Selina’s thieves, instead of trying to talk it out and compromise like a rational human being. His whole must stop all crimes thing is also massively hypocritical coming from a vigilante.

Yeah but he's not training an army of crooks.

Its one thing to be a vigilante but Selina was actively teaching criminals to be better criminals which is the worst way to combat recidivism.

[Kurus]

Yeah but he's not training an army of crooks.

Its one thing to be a vigilante but Selina was actively teaching criminals to be better criminals which is the worst way to combat recidivism.

She was training them to be catburglars like herself. And Batman famously does not have a problem with letting Selina off the hook for robbery.

[Aahz]

And Steph, Helena, and Sasha weren’t Batfamily.

But they were consistently appearing, had storylines and were (at least in the case of Huntress) occasionally prominently involved in events.

my point here is simply that it is possible to handle such a big cast of characters. If now count them as Batfamily or only Batfamily adjacent doesn't really matter imo.


If we just compare that characters they had back than with the one we have now. Steph could be handled similar to back than, Jason could take the spot from Jean-Paul, Helena could either keep her spot or it could go to Batwoman (having both is a bit redundant imo) and than they would have only to figure out how to split the Robin Role between Tim and Damian, and I think at least the core family would a accounted for.

Ok I would ditch in that scenario all of the post flashpoint characters (Luke, Duke, Harper, Jace...) but I don't really have the impression that these characters are nearly popular enough to carry a book.

[Godlike13]

They were supporting characters. That’s what supporting characters do, but the core family was fairly consistent and considerably more streamlined then it is now. While today characters like Jason don’t have Dennis O’Neil to give them a spot.

[Rac7d*]

She was training them to be catburglars like herself. And Batman famously does not have a problem with letting Selina off the hook for robbery.

Yes cuz he is biased and that another issue
But catwoman made people more dangerous and it was never mentioned that she is responsible for giving those people the tools to do wrong. She will get a pass now and forever and it’s framed as empowerment cuz she does what she wants

[Aahz]

While today characters like Jason don’t have Dennis O’Neil to give them a spot.

But I would argue that Jason is more popular than Azreal.
With good creative team, and an editorial that actually understands how to handle these characters, I think he should able to do fine, as long as the comic market hasn't shrunken to point were only the big characters can support books.
But if that's the case, than no one out side of Bruce and Dick is going to be able to carry a book anymore.

[Restingvoice]

By the way since I don't read the book and only saw spoilers, does Bruce leave Gotham or something after talking with Dick?

[Morgoth]

No, he stayed.
Technically, he just left Bat-Family and was cut from their network by Dick.