Ah, the rare story where Bluebird’s obscurity is to her benefit, because she’ll likely be not involved in this mess.
I think it’s just natural for fans to wonder who beats who. And I know most people think it should be a draw or Bruce should win but Dick has beat him, Deathstroke handily who regularly challenges Batman and has just about every advantage. Him with a team of Robins should be something Batman fears not just runs through. Again, Dick has been doing this since he was a child.
This goes onto my larger issue with Nightwing at DC. On one hand they acknowledge his history and popularity and will put him alongside Bruce but when they want to do a Bruce against his family story he has to job and lose to him.
Gotta say this was better than I thought it would be.The batfamily actually believing that Bruce would be ok with letting crimes happen is just stupid though. I mean why on earth would the guy who's rich parents were gunned down in front of him, have a problem with just letting crimes happen to rich people? Gee I wonder why he is upset with letting some crimes just happen?
However, honestly I do think the characterization of the batfamily was on point with how they have been in the past years:
Blame bruce for everything including the rain in gotham- check
Have unrealistic expectations that batman will display moral flexibility against crimes- check
take all his tech, resources and guidance over the years for granted and straight up attack him- check
I used to love the batfamily but they became a self righteous group of hypocrites, who basically blame bruce for training them and act like he forced them into crime fighting when, all of them could simply just quit if that was the case. Instead they use his money, training, symbol and resources and take him for granted while blaming him for everything that goes wrong in their lives. if this story gets them taken out of bruce's books for a long while then I am all for it. Let Nightwing, Barbara, Tim and all the rest have their moral high horse of crime is ok if it happens to the right people in bludhaven or something like that and in their own books.
Last edited by regg215; 09-06-2023 at 10:06 AM.
"You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged"- CAPT. Picard
Yeeesh this is such a bad part of this story
The fact that the Batfam barring Bruce and Damian, are willing to compromise people's lives just to keep continuing with this is pretty pathetic
Didn't see Snyder's response [didn't even know he chimed in] but Tynion didn't disagree with King's rankings or Dick beating Bruce. He just added that Tim was the best detective so he'd win if the quest was investigation/Brains.
Which...... okay, but is incorrect since Dick Grayson has and still is referred to as the 2nd Greatest Detective.
Seeley also agreed. Pretty much all the Rebirth bat writers agreed with the list with lobdell saying no comment.
I don't mind Dick and Cass being able to best Bruce. Jason also should give him a tough time.
Bruce is getting on and has had far too many broken bones and injuries to be performing at the rate he does.
"The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest
You mean crimes committed by people other than the Bat Family?
I can see a few of them seeing it from Selina's pov. Stephanie, Cass, Jason (obviously), and even Dick. As for Damien, I for one would be worried about whether or not I actually am on the right side of the debate if the spoiled privileged assassin backs my play.
I'm not saying he hasn't done any good. To say otherwise would be ridiculous. What I am saying is he didn't grow up with the kind of poverty Selina has and understand the reasons people turn to crime like she does. I'm not talking about guys like Bane or Joker. I'm talking about the guy just trying to feed his kid and get treatment for his sick wife.
He literally did not fire the first (or any) shot. He wasn't even armed.
Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.
Yeah, this should've been the last straw for most of them like it was for Batman.
I mean, if you really have a thing against vigilante's, I guess .
A lot of people have pointed out why Jason wouldn't actually go along with this plan. He's not being written well here.I can see a few of them seeing it from Selina's pov. Stephanie, Cass, Jason (obviously), and even Dick. As for Damien, I for one would be worried about whether or not I actually am on the right side of the debate if the spoiled privileged assassin backs my play.
Cass would probably see Bruce's points unless Babs told her otherwise (which might've been what happened) but I don't think Babs would agree with this. Dick might be more open to it up until somebody died in the middle of a robbery.
Damian is clinical and practical. He's definitely very opinionated but I think he's talking sense here.
But he does understand that. He's tried to make an impact in that as Bruce Wayne. He knew exactly about Roland Garner's circumstances, which is why it hit him so hard that this botched robbery deprived a girl of her father.I'm not saying he hasn't done any good. To say otherwise would be ridiculous. What I am saying is he didn't grow up with the kind of poverty Selina has and understand the reasons people turn to crime like she does. I'm not talking about guys like Bane or Joker. I'm talking about the guy just trying to feed his kid and get treatment for his sick wife.
But he was breaking into someone's home to rob them. She overreacted but under the circumstances it's not completely unreasonable, and it shows the issue with thinking turning people into thieves will solve anything.He literally did not fire the first (or any) shot. He wasn't even armed.
You know, if Dick wasn't a billionaire now (or he's a millionaire, correct me if I'm wrong), it would be extremely funny to look at this conflict from the point of view of the narrative about confrontation between rich and poor, which Zdarsky and Howard try to push through Selina point of view.
In the sense that, on the one hand, insanely rich Bruce and Damian, and on the other, the rest of Bat-Fam.
Everyone in Batfam is rich, none of them even care about work. Bruce kept them that way.
Bruce is no longer a millionaire because you know, Selina robbed him and gave his assets to Lucius Fox.
Jason has been consistently shown as getting funding himself through robbing crime lords or through his brief stint as a soldier of fortune.
Cant find Snyder's response (I'm positive he chimed in and disagreed with tom's list, or at least with his placing of bruce and dick). Found Tynion's though
Screenshot_20230906_205204_Chrome.jpg
I mean, if we're seriously treating all crimes as equal, absolutely.
As stated elsewhere, Babs has had a problem beating up criminals over petty theft. It kinda does seem like overkill. As for Cass, she literally murdered somebody once upon a time. If it's even across the board...
Again, I'd really question the side that you're taking if Damien is on it.
Clearly, the system has failed Roland and man, many other people. It's rather stubborn of Bruce to refuses to see that.
I don't imagine that Selina was naïve enough to tell the criminals that are working with her that this is an absolutely no risk venture. You take the steps to minimize the risk as much as you can, but nothing is 100%. Does it make what happened right? Absolutely not. But it's the same kind of risk you take being a rooftop vigilante, too.
Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.