ASM #26 Preview

[Xenon]

so consistent that once peter is gone she cries and begs peter to come back save her? and then out of nowhere she thinks he won't come to save her anymore? the same peter who seriously sacrificed his life for her... and i'm not talking about the hospital scene which completely ruins mj's character.

she cheats on peter with paul just because they are the last humans there is no logic it's just cliché and ridiculous just to be able to separate them again since OMD was implemented.

She defends Paul and stays with him knowing the truth about him, that he helped his father genocided everyone and he's sorry for that lol because where a genocide is comparable to the death of uncle ben so paul reminded him of peter...

The story removed her choices, and you pretending it didn't is straight up gaslighting. She literally got stranded in another dimension with the son of her captor and the story gave her a couple of kids to look after even though we know this is not the life MJ wanted. And the kids were so inconsequential that they were just removed without a second thought.

MJ was reduced to an object to make Peter sad. Felicia was reduced to an object to try to cheer Peter up. Kamala was reduced to a corpse just so they could fake out the audience into thinking MJ had died.

That is how this run has depicted the women who have appeared in it.

ALL of both of these posts are echoed.

[The Twilight Mexican]

Attachments that supposedly allowed him to find her wherever she is ... yet which he hilariously didn't act upon for years ...

Yea he did. He hunted them constantly in the other world.

It's plain on the pages in #25 that they stayed in the same place with the kids for at least 3 years. They found the kids approximately 7 months into what was described as almost four years of being stranded in that dimension -- and began staying in that new place no more than a month after finding the kids.

So, no, Rabin did not hunt them constantly, and he did hilariously fail for years to act upon being able to get to Mary Jane at any time thanks to the magical talking tracking devices tethered to her. He never bothered to just teleport to her location until right at the moment "The Sun-Blood returns for you" (literally the first thing he says when he does finally come for Mary Jane).

[Dark-Jacket]

I've skimmed through the issue without buying it, Well it managed to be a fine 90's dark era comics ! Glad we're in 1993 !

I mean it's been a while since I've read a comics this migonystic, hilarioulsy bad written, and with so many racist undertone (which was not written by Frank Miller).
I'm not even angry just apathetic. x)

[Majesty]

So now we know what it was that Paul told MJ. And knowing that truth, and getting to know him as intimately as she had, bonded them closer it seems.

[jwatson]

Until she had reason not to. MJ knows PEter is never going to give up on her. She even says so in the hospital scene (contradicting herself) by saying she knows when Peter says he didn't waste any time at all trying to save her.



It's not a false equivalency at all. You think every girlfriend got letters every week from their boyfriend in WWII? Let's go further back to the era of the crusades and the caliphate conquest of northern africa. You think those people who had no contact for years were justified sleeping around? And that's just real life, not a fantastical world where anythng can happen and her boyfriend is a genius with superpowers who ALREADY MADE A PORTAL ONCE.



Yeah sometimes i'm just asking questions to point out the dumb.



MJ falls in love with Peter by issue 150, when the only traumatic experience is their mutual friend dying, but she's pursuing Peter before that point. She also leave him after that point and plays the field for a while before coming back to him. She had freedom and choice when it came to Peter. She did not when it came to Paul. Well, outside of just waiting for Peter, which is the choice she would have made.

There's little evidence Rabin himself constantly hunted them in the other world. WHen he shows up he nearly kills them, and the whole reason they left where they initially were is because Rabin knew where they were. If he was finding them repeatedly they'd be moving repeatedly, but instead they treat their location as static. IF they're supposed to be moving constantly....well they needed to do a better job.



I mean this is also correct and inexcusable. It'd be one thing if he was just fast and chased down who looked like MJ and was wrong. But he teleports right to...Kamala....who he thinks is MJ. I guess he has farsight or something? Badly done either way.

Well there ya go, that's the whole problem, MJ is a modern women and she chose to move on. If you need to go back a century to behold a woman to the standard you hold or think should be held by all there is really nothing else to be said. you feel from what i am reading based on how you see MJ she should have waited and anything less for any reason at all is just out of character. It's a far reaching fixed opinion that this story could have only happened one way, MJ waiting for Peter, while i disagree, that's okay to have but it doesn't make the work bad.

[Frontier]

So now we know what it was that Paul told MJ. And knowing that truth, and getting to know him as intimately as she had, bonded them closer it seems.

Yeaahhhh...equating Paul with Peter and his whole deal is to Peter himself is while acting condescending about it...not a good look here.

Well there ya go, that's the whole problem, MJ is a modern women and she chose to move on. If you need to go back a century to behold a woman to the standard you hold or think should be held by all there is really nothing else to be said. you feel from what i am reading based on how you see MJ she should have waited and anything less for any reason at all is just out of character. It's a far reaching fixed opinion that this story could have only happened one way, MJ waiting for Peter, while i disagree, that's okay to have but it doesn't make the work bad.

Ultimately it's just a forced plot to force drama.

[Venomsaurus]

My initial theory still works. She loves him too much to be his friend and not be with him. So she pushes him a away to not break up the family and cause the kids more trauma. She treats him like dirt to try and convince him to move on, then is angry with him for still loving her and ruining her plan. That's why she almost breaks at the end of 9, she's too emotionally drained to keep up the facade. Easiest route to go, you never have to use Paul again, it gives her an ok but not amazing excuse for acting bad. Gets them back together fast if Felicia is not in the way.

And while i'm hesitant to put any meaning behind any subtle cues in this book, the scene at the end of 9 is not subtle and makes no sense unless MJ is not happy with her situation. And her face in both 1 and 19 are clearly meant to imply conflict and unhappiness seeing Peter. It's all right there for them to do, they just have to do it instead of BSing us for another year.

Your theory does hold plenty of water. I still hate the notion that her cruelty is just her trying to get him to move on. I would think she'd know better than that, but then, she is in kind of a tough spot emotionally.

Issue 9 remains the biggest smoking gun that all is not well, and that her and Paul aren't really all that happily together like she keeps acting. I'd be so happy if we just get an off-panel explanation that she dumped him not long after this.

[Inversed]

Issue had the problem with what I feared, this needed at the very least an extra issue, because there's just too much going on and not enough page time to satisfyingly cover it all.

Not only do you have the battle with Rabin itself, plus throwing in Osborn, the F4, and a dragon, but you have to reestablish Ms. Marvel, then you have to have the flashback revealing Paul's secret, the kids going bye bye, MJ using her powers, fake-out MJ death, and real Ms. Marvel death, and because of this everything becomes rushed.

The rushedness especially doesn't do the mystery box any favours, because then it leads into all of these debates regarding some of these writing choice's intentions. The kids barely did anything in their entire existence, and are gone in one page in a literal wave of a wrist. So were we meant to actually care about them, were they written as non-entities on purpose because of a greater narrative purpose that comes in later, or is the possible third answer, just a plot device to keep MJ preoccupied, and now sad?

Then you have all the arguments regarding MJ and Paul's relationship. We are told they are meant to be a "loving couple", but even as of last issue, they are constantly very vague with the details of how deep that love is meant to be insinuated (seeing someone point out that we never see them kiss at all was the big raised flag for me). This is how we get all the, at times bad faith, arguments regarding MJ's agency in choosing what she wants to do, because the story itself is (most likely intentionally) sending mixed messages on the characters' intentions just to keep people in the dark. Either MJ and Paul's love is meant to be genuine, which in that case it's done a terrible job conveying because they want to spend so much of the time being cryptic, or it's not and this situation causes Paul to go off the deep end which just becomes "See you weren't actually supposed to like them together, it was badly written on purpose."

And then you have the Ms. Marvel thing, which like was expected not only feels cheap and unearned due to how much of a non-character she's been in the run, but also because I can guarantee it's barely gonna have any ongoing impact in the story going forward, considering we know she's coming back in a few months time. Her dying for a fake-out MJ death I can't tell currently if I think it is the same level of poor taste or makes it worse. If they were really committed to this, they should've actually made her a prominent character in the run.

Another consequence of the rushed pacing, Peter seeing MJ use her powers for the first time, and already knows exactly how they work? Even though she supposedly was keeping it a secret from him? How much of that is intentional and how much of that was a mistake, again not sure.

As someone who's been neutral on the run, I feel like it's gotten by pretty much on necessity because of the mystery box angle, constantly throwing curve balls and non-answers so you can't judge it until the entire thing is complete. Now that (most of) the mystery box was concluded in a very unsatisfying manner, it does leave me worried regarding what pieces are left and where they could go, since we won't really know until the end of the thesis of this run is really "about".

[Majesty]

Well there ya go, that's the whole problem, MJ is a modern women and she chose to move on. If you need to go back a century to behold a woman to the standard you hold or think should be held by all there is really nothing else to be said. you feel from what i am reading based on how you see MJ she should have waited and anything less for any reason at all is just out of character. It's a far reaching fixed opinion that this story could have only happened one way, MJ waiting for Peter, while i disagree, that's okay to have but it doesn't make the work bad.

Indeed, and at the same time they won't care as much if Peter has several girls while MJ is across the street. Because they expect MJ will still be waiting on him no matter how many girls he decides to have between then. But MJ moving on after 4 years after being allowed to actually get to know another character deeply and intimately in the process is preposterous and blasphemous to them it seems.

And the biggest thing they have is that MJ made the choice to move on. That is a reality they refuse to accept. Not that it didn't happen. They just refuse to accept it.

[Hoodj]

It's not a false equivalency at all. You think every girlfriend got letters every week from their boyfriend in WWII? Let's go further back to the era of the crusades and the caliphate conquest of northern africa. You think those people who had no contact for years were justified sleeping around?

Didnt he just say Peter aint a soilder or a equvilent to one, bad anaolgy. Peter is not owed pussy because he seeks it. Its like Mario and Peach, alot of games make Mario dote over Peach yet she just considers him a good friend and doesnt return his interests other than some hints and teases. The more corrupted and sadly realistic version of this is Bowser and Peach which is just a incel projection of a manchild with violent and agressive tendencies just being owed a wife or sex slave. Overall, MJ gets treated at the end of the day an object of a mans desires than a individial in stories like this.

[Xenon]

Well there ya go, that's the whole problem, MJ is a modern women and she chose to move on. If you need to go back a century to behold a woman to the standard you hold or think should be held by all there is really nothing else to be said. you feel from what i am reading based on how you see MJ she should have waited and anything less for any reason at all is just out of character. It's a far reaching fixed opinion that this story could have only happened one way, MJ waiting for Peter, while i disagree, that's okay to have but it doesn't make the work bad.

Your argument here is that modern women are less moral than women of older times and I'm not willing to buy that. Love is a real thing People wait for each other all the time. They don't shrivel up and fall off if they aren't used every 90 days.

Your theory does hold plenty of water. I still hate the notion that her cruelty is just her trying to get him to move on. I would think she'd know better than that, but then, she is in kind of a tough spot emotionally.

Issue 9 remains the biggest smoking gun that all is not well, and that her and Paul aren't really all that happily together like she keeps acting. I'd be so happy if we just get an off-panel explanation that she dumped him not long after this.

We're well past good explanations, we're just searching for acceptable ones now. THe only thing 26 changed for me is that I lost a lot of hope because it was so incompetent. Like the MJ stuff is bad but I was always hoping it was just in service to the mystery box, which ok, might still be. But the kids having no purpose, Rabin's death not making any sense, Peter not reacting to MJ's powers, Like none of these things would be dealbreakers in a better story, but they're also just indefensibly bad writing. And if he's screwing up those things I can't trust he's not screwing u the bigger things.

But they have the pieces. Let's just hope he course corrects soon.

[Frontier]

Indeed, and at the same time they won't care as much if Peter has several girls while MJ is across the street. Because they expect MJ will still be waiting on him no matter how many girls he decides to have between then. But MJ moving on after 4 years after being allowed to actually get to know another character deeply and intimately in the process is preposterous and blasphemous to them it seems.

And the biggest thing they have is that MJ made the choice to move on. That is a reality they refuse to accept. Not that it didn't happen. They just refuse to accept it.

I think the thing is for fans is it feels so artificial and forced just to break them up that it's extremely hard to buy into or accept. Especially with Wells' writing.

[Mercwmouth12]

I think the thing is for fans is it feels so artificial and forced just to break them up that it's extremely hard to buy into or accept. Especially with Wells' writing.

It's like telling a kid you can't have this so they want it more. So everytime they do this is like clockwork. People get pissed then more pissed at the in-between reasons until it's fixed to time

[jwatson]

Your argument here is that modern women are less moral than women of older times and I'm not willing to buy that. Love is a real thing People wait for each other all the time. They don't shrivel up and fall off if they aren't used every 90 days.




We're well past good explanations, we're just searching for acceptable ones now. THe only thing 26 changed for me is that I lost a lot of hope because it was so incompetent. Like the MJ stuff is bad but I was always hoping it was just in service to the mystery box, which ok, might still be. But the kids having no purpose, Rabin's death not making any sense, Peter not reacting to MJ's powers, Like none of these things would be dealbreakers in a better story, but they're also just indefensibly bad writing. And if he's screwing up those things I can't trust he's not screwing u the bigger things.

But they have the pieces. Let's just hope he course corrects soon.

No my argument would be you think your opinion matters on what makes a woman moral to herself and while it is an okay (as in everyone has one) opinion to have ultimately it doesn't and shouldn't matter to her. MJ has been written as sure of her choices and that's what matters.

[Frontier]

No my argument would be you think your opinion matters on what makes a woman moral to herself and while it is an okay opinion to have ultimately it doesn't. MJ has been written as sure of her choices and that's what matters.

I think what matters is whether her character and her relationship with Peter is being written consistently and...it just doesn't feel like it is.