ASM #26 Preview

[Toonstrack]

We're the audience. We are not fictional characters in the story. There's a difference.



Paul would leave children to die. What kind of "good guy" is he?



What I want is to understand why MJ is acting the way she is. The story has not provided an explanation for her, frankly, massively out of character behavior. But it's nice to know you are no longer trying to convince me that Felicia hasn't been reduced to an object to make Peter feel better.



Her creator had no say in any of this. Her creator agreed to work on a comic memorial for her (before she's inevitably revived). There's a difference. And none of this means the story of her death, a story that wasn't even about her, isn't racist.

1. Hahaha no there's not. If Paul's a bad person for having a legitimate reason to not trust the kids, then that makes you a bad person for wanting MJs kids to be brutally killed for Peter's benefit. You can't claim to care about MJ when you clearly only value her for affect on peter. Anything SHE dares to care about is expendable to you and you've admitted that clearly here.

2. Paul left two fake children to fake die. He was right. He wss suspicious, and he was right to be suspicious.

You wanted them to die out of spite.

3.Its explained it plenty. Its just those explanations don't have to do with Peter, so you disregard them. This is the common thing we are seeing here. If it doesn't involve peter directly you pretend it doesn't exist, should die, etc. Even if that thing is MJ herself.

4. Like I said you can read it that way. Just don't project onto the rest of us. The rest of us saw a hero die, being heroic. You're the one throwing the race card at everyone else who read this.

[Frontier]

And thats totally fair. You dont have to like this runnir this writing for the character.

But don't tell me she didn't make choices and dance around all the choices she absolutely made, ones that she WOULD make. Just admit you are intentionally removing her agency from consideration because you dont like the run, so I know that you have no ability to objectively view the story.

I have an issue with the disingenuous arguments and the wierd sexisy angle some of these takes on MJ are getting too.

These folks literslly consider MJ expendable if she's not taking Peter's dick. Some of them have outright said it. If you think she needs to be killed off simply because she isn't banging him, then they shouldn't be together. Thats not what relationships are built on.

I'm not saying she didn't make choices I'm saying the writing and situation behind those choices was badly executed.

Does it? Or does it add another layer to their relationship that, based on the resposns here is clearly needed?

Its pretty much unquestionably the case, now, they a lot of folks simply don't see what MJs purpose is if she isn't Peter's main squeeze. If they choose to have them be together now, it will be not because there's nothing else for them to do with her, but because she truly wants that and she COULD be with others but she wants to be with Peter. Thats much for depthful and a much stronger foundation.

Honestly this just makes them come off as more toxic and dysfunctional together the way Wells writes them.

[Dark-Jacket]

Based on what I've read here Mayday should never happen. At least not for another decade. If she does they should have her already and adult and walk through a portal.

Spidey readers only give af about whT happes to other characters if it affects Peter. If its something that exist outside of Peter's influence or decision making, to hell with them. Even if they are kids.

They can still go over with a "she was not really dead".

[Venomsaurus]

At this rate the next run could open with "And it was all a dream" and I'd happily go for it.

[Kevinroc]

1. Hahaha no there's not. If Paul's a bad person for having a legitimate reason to not trust the kids, then that makes you a bad person for wanting MJs kids to be brutally killed for Peter's benefit. You can't claim to care about MJ when you clearly only value her for affect on peter. Anything SHE dares to care about is expendable to you and you've admitted that clearly here.

You're arguing that there is no difference between those of us in the real world and fictional characters living in a fictional world?

2. Paul left two fake children to fake die. He was right. He wss suspicious, and he was right to be suspicious.

You wanted them to die out of spite.

I didn't care about the kids because the story gave me no reason to care. To Paul, these kids aren't a fictional story that he is engaging with. Paul is a fictional character in a fictional world. You understand the difference between reality and fiction, right?

3.Its explained it plenty. Its just those explanations don't have to do with Peter, so you disregard them. This is the common thing we are seeing here. If it doesn't involve peter directly you pretend it doesn't exist, should die, etc. Even if that thing is MJ herself.

The explanation is basically Zeb saying "because I said so" and not actually doing anything for the audience to buy into this premise. Sometimes writers fail at their job. This is one such case.

4. Like I said you can read it that way. Just don't project onto the rest of us. The rest of us saw a hero die, being heroic. You're the one throwing the race card at everyone else who read this.

Kamala's story is about the journey of a POC learning to become comfortable in their own skin. That's why Ms. Marvel originally had shape shifting abilities. She literally transformed into Carol Danvers' form. But she wasn't comfortable with that form. So she stopped turning into white women and became comfortable being a hero in her own skin. And she seemingly lost the ability to shapeshift.

And then she randomly gets the power to shapeshift back so she can die as bait to make people think it's a white lady who died but it was instead the brown girl. At the end of AAPI month.

The story is racist.

[Inversed]

Does it? Or does it add another layer to their relationship that, based on the resposns here is clearly needed?

Its pretty much unquestionably the case, now, they a lot of folks simply don't see what MJs purpose is if she isn't Peter's main squeeze. If they choose to have them be together now, it will be not because there's nothing else for them to do with her, but because she truly wants that and she COULD be with others but she wants to be with Peter. Thats much for depthful and a much stronger foundation.

My issue is we already had that exact thing play out in Spencer's run. After the long period where they were separated, they come back together, and shortly afterward we have an issue where she pontificates that very thought, how she chose to not be together with him to be on her own, and now chose to be back together because it's what she truly wanted.

I completely understand the "intention" here is supposed to show that MJ despite still loving Peter is not completely beholden to him, that she is within her own feelings as a person to start up a family when stuck in this situation for years, and be able to continue it afterward. The problem is how transparent the actual narrative execution of this is, in that Paul and the kids are non-entities with barely any actual relationship development even in their flashback issue, so the readers don't see them as characters to benefit MJ's development, but tools to keep them apart. And if the good next part of this run for her ends up just being sad about the kids gone, I don't think that helps her independent development much either.

Is there really anything vague anymore?
Like in ASM 3, we have Paul saying I love you too in the phone talking to MJ
ASM 7 MJ cling into Paul arms in Oscorp and they had a sitter to take care of the kids so they can celebrate the deal with Norman
Then we have the spa date
Or MJ saying that she won’t leave Paul in ASM 25, she could have said I’m not leaving him and my kids or something like that but she didn’t say that, why lied to Peter if that wasn’t the case? Some people thought she was protecting him but we know now that is not the case

There's the weird back and forth between her wanting nothing to do with Peter anymore, but then also wanting to be friendly with him, and then the implications the primary reason behind the relationship is the "responsibility" for caring for the children. Plus, even in that flashback issue no kiss, which in a comic book (which LOVES to have people kiss) that is supposed to be about them falling in love, makes me feel very suspect on the actual intent. It's alot of mixed messages that again, I feel like is intentional so they can go in either direction regarding how serious the relationship is for the final reveals.

[Dark-Jacket]

Same for me I'm still waiting for the moment I can read spiderman again and enjoy it.

[Kevinroc]

They wanted The Night Gwen Stacy Died. They got Avengers 200.

[Venomsaurus]

Didn't Celgress say Peter supposedly did some Timey Wimey BS that upset MJ? Guess that was a bust. We dodged a bullet there.

[Garlador]

You're coming from a place of bias though. Therapists usually don't want their parient to end up with one person over the other. Therapists aren't personally invested with whether their client ends up with one person or the other. At least they arent supposed to be.

I never said that Mary Jane must be with Peter in this situation. In a situation like this, both Paul and Mary Jane would be independently treated and analyzed for warning signs of the traumas I had mentioned.

So, in most cases your diagnosis would come under question. In this case where we barely have anything to work off of, it could be thrown out entirely.

That is professionally untrue.

Besides; we've already seen stability come from the chaos. They made a loving home for two kids, who may have been fake but were real for the time they knew them. They were able to function alongside each other without damaging any of their prior relationships(save for the bitter ex).

One of these individuals has no other prior relationships, because he killed his only living relative. And I have previously mentioned a long list of people in Mary Jane's life who would question her abrupt status quo shift given she categorically has expressed a strong aversion to being in a forced family situation in the past.

And even if none of that was the case, like the other guy said all these folks need therapists anyway and are jacked in the head. There aren't any normal relationships in a traditional sense which is why so few of these characters have lasting ones.

Yikes. There are dozens of healthy, thriving couples in comics right now. Many of whom see therapists, in fact!

[Jwyatt]

Adding to the bad writing, that was criminal misuse of the Invisible Woman.

[spiderlink]

My issue is we already had that exact thing play out in Spencer's run. After the long period where they were separated, they come back together, and shortly afterward we have an issue where she pontificates that very thought, how she chose to not be together with him to be on her own, and now chose to be back together because it's what she truly wanted.

I completely understand the "intention" here is supposed to show that MJ despite still loving Peter is not completely beholden to him, that she is within her own feelings as a person to start up a family when stuck in this situation for years, and be able to continue it afterward. The problem is how transparent the actual narrative execution of this is, in that Paul and the kids are non-entities with barely any actual relationship development even in their flashback issue, so the readers don't see them as characters to benefit MJ's development, but tools to keep them apart. And if the good next part of this run for her ends up just being sad about the kids gone, I don't think that helps her independent development much either.



There's the weird back and forth between her wanting nothing to do with Peter anymore, but then also wanting to be friendly with him, and then the implications the primary reason behind the relationship is the "responsibility" for caring for the children. Plus, even in that flashback issue no kiss, which in a comic book (which LOVES to have people kiss) that is supposed to be about them falling in love, makes me feel very suspect on the actual intent. It's alot of mixed messages that again, I feel like is intentional so they can go in either direction regarding how serious the relationship is for the final reveals.

I think it’s pretty easy to follow MJ behavior imo
First she doesn’t want to have anything to do with Peter because she was stalking her, then they see each other in Oscorp and MJ ask Peter if he planned that encounter, they talk but nothing to substantial, Peter apologize for his behavior but then after the Hellfire Gala Peter starts to ask MJ to a coffe but MJ says that she has a responsibility to Paul (not the kids) and she left, for Harry’s birthday she decide to be more friendly and they talk, we don’t see Peter and MJ together until the spa day when MJ thought that Peter was stalking her again but when Felicia said it was her idea she become more “friendly”
If you want to take MJ & BC into account we know that MJ cares about Peter but she doesn’t care who he’s dating

[mugen]

She didn't cheat lol. They arent even married. She didn't even know if Peter was alive or what happened to him. Of course she wanted to be saved, that doesnt contrsdict her act. But she moved on because she obviously relaxed this was going to be a long haul and possibly permanent and she had people to protect.

Paul never said he helped genocide anyone. He said he helped build the machines and tech, not knowing what his father wanted to do with them.

she cheated she was dating peter and was going to move in with him no matter how blocked she knew peter was alive she didn't push her in the gate for nothing lol she's known peter too long for her to believe that he will not come anymore and was aware of the time difference.
it makes no sense that mj decides to redo this life in an apocalyptic world with a random just because he's the only man left lol who would like to start a new life in a world where all that awaits them is death either by the demons, or by rabbi.

Without the intervention of peter mj and paul would have died killed by rabin this new life would not have lasted long lol

Peter didn't bring it back to life when everyone thought mj was dead while she was trapped by a maniac for 6 months he kept looking for her and finding her.

[jwatson]

She was forced to act this way because the writer didn't want to write Peter and MJ together, and this was the justification he used to split them up.

And he failed at the execution of this.

There's nothing wrong with admitting this fact.

She is forced to act this way because Marvel has said marrying peter ages him and it's not what they want. Those are the simple facts so it doesn't matter what the writers do or don't, it is the status quo of spidey he will never get married so if the readers want to wait when Marvel not only said so but erased the marriage then by all means fine but there are some MJ fans that want more than being the eternal off again on again girlfriend, this ain't friends and they darn sure aren't Ross and Rachel. There is no more will they won't they, marvel told us, and not even in a split, it just doesn't exist anymore. But yet the universe hasn't been reset so it never actually happened. So what is the point of writing in circles. may as well just go read the old stuff that you know did and could lead somewhere.

[Kevinroc]

She is forced to act this way because Marvel has said marrying peter ages him and it's not what they want. Those are the simple facts so it doesn't matter what the writers do or don't, it is the status quo of spidey he will never get married so if the readers want to wait when Marvel not only said so but erased the marriage then my all means fine but there are some MJ fans that want more than being the eternal off again on again girlfriend, this ain't friends and they darn sure aren't Ross and Rachel. There is no more will they won't they, marvel told us, and not even in a split, it just doesn't exist anymore. But yet the universe hasn't been reset so it never actually happened. So what is the point of writing in circles. may as well just go read the old stuff that you know did and could lead somewhere.

They want the on-again/off-again thing for Peter and MJ. It's so nakedly transparent I don't know how so many other people don't see it. They want to leave it up to the individual creators whether they're together or not. Like Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris.