ASM #26 Preview

[Majesty]

They weren't together post-OMD until Spencer. It was a "will they/won't they" under Slott and the other BND writers. And every single time the answer was "no." (And no, RYV does not count since that was a different Peter and MJ.)

You're aware nothing you said refuted what I just said. All you did was add "it was a few years post OMD before they got back together though" to it basically.

[Kevinroc]

You're aware nothing you said refuted what I just said. All you did was add "it was a few years post OMD before they got back together though" to it basically.

Over 10 years is not how most people would define "a few years."

[Majesty]

Over 10 years is not how most people would define "a few years."

What I said

It's been less than one year since they've been together. They were constantly on-again off-again many many many times post OMD and there has been PLENTY of Peter/MJ stuff and times they've been a couple since then. It ain't like they've been separated/just friends for 15 years post OMD, far FAR from it.

It hasn't been 15 years since they've been together, it's been less than a year. There has been plenty of MJ and Peter stuff since then, and they had an on again/off again period, as well as a period where they were together again.

None of that is wrong. Like I said, you basically just added "They were on again and off again, usually with off being picked, and it was years after OMD before they got back together again." Okay...? That refutes nothing I said. You just said it was a gap between OMD and them dating again. That changes nothing about what I said.

[Kevinroc]

What I said



It hasn't been 15 years since they've been together, it's been less than a year. There has been plenty of MJ and Peter stuff since then, and they had an on again/off again period, as well as a period where they were together again.

None of that is wrong. Like I said, you basically just added "They were on again and off again, usually with off being picked, and it was years after OMD before they got back together again." Okay...? That refutes nothing I said. You just said it was a gap between OMD and them dating again. That changes nothing about what I said.

They weren't on-again/off-again. They were "will they/won't they?"

There's a difference.

[blank]

[QUOTE=Majesty;6492960]What I said

What I said



It hasn't been 15 years since they've been together, it's been less than a year. There has been plenty of MJ and Peter stuff since then, and they had an on again/off again period, as well as a period where they were together again.

None of that is wrong. Like I said, you basically just added "They were on again and off again, usually with off being picked, and it was years after OMD before they got back together again." Okay...? That refutes nothing I said. You just said it was a gap between OMD and them dating again. That changes nothing about what I said.

By the 15 years, I meant since they created the current status quo. I know they’ve dated in previous runs before Spencer but again nothing really lasted all that long, during his run they were dating for almost 4 years( at least based on the fact they were in a relationship since 2018 till 2022 in the 616, idk how much time passed in the 616) and using to such a convoluted way to break them up just feels wrong as I summarised in my earlier point and the story so far agains lacks anything more MJ potentially having begun sleeping with another man in a year and giving up on Peter. Despite knowing that Peter had just finished a lot of his recovery from the nuclear radiation( can’t actually remember if he was fully recovered by the time Rabin was used in Wells’ work) and that no matter what he would come for her. Other than that MJ has lacked understanding and or guilt regarding they way has she treated her ex(considering that in 616 time it took a month or so to save her, so in a way to Peter it is almost as if MJ literally began cheating on him the moment he was kicked out of the dead earth by her). I’d like to clarify that I think 2-4 years is acceptable to move on but in all honesty who would act as if a person complicit in planetary genocide and blamed Peter for his dead world and proceeded to lie about it for at least three years before telling MJ (and other than raise the two kids does nothing to make up for the fact he helped killed a planet) be a remote comparison to a guy who’s let his failings in his life shape his judgement and action for his whole life (as they became a events as a key reason for that Peter continues to be Spider-Man). Or even move on to such a person. The argument because they both feel guilt and pain of their actions of inaction it’s not even remotely comparable. Furthermore Paul would probably belong on a list of intergalactic criminals in the 616 due to the death of his earth literally being caused by the machines he built and helped his father build. Another thing I dislike about the current run is also suggests that Paul arguably had some level of Power over MJ in the dead world, with his knowledge of sigils, him providing her with a literal weapon and his ability to use them to safeguard their “home”, it does seems extremely problematic to have them in a romantic relationship(of which we only have some implication the dialogue or preludes that they are together in a romantic sense rather than actual confirmation in the art). The final sin is that there isn’t even one scene where Peter has been angry at MJ, hes always angry at Paul or even Norman rather than the person who arguably betrayed him.

[Lukmendes]

I'll also point out this is exactly the opposite take he has her have after Superior, where she loves Peter Parker but can't handle Spider-Man. unless he means to have Peter be wrong here? i dunno. I actually like how MJ is drawn here though.

Considering this is Slott's own view, what Spidey is saying isn't meant to be wrong.

Also the change of mind post-Superior, I can understand why, she got fucked over because of Superior's events and is now butthurt at the Spider-Man side, so at least there is a reason for her to change her mind, unlike other times in Slott's run where characters change their own damn mind about **** for the most random reasons (Such as in Superior where JJ is supportive of Spider-Otto's actions).

MOSTLY, but it still slipped through a few times. Gwen had the advantage of being dead for forty years so it wasn't like it had a lot of opportunities to come up.[/QUOTE]

They weren't on-again/off-again. They were "will they/won't they?"

There's a difference.

The only time you can even say Spidey and MJ were dating between OMD and Spencer's run was during Superior, and we don't wanna count that in any way lol.

Before that there was **** like mutual pining, such as her saying she loves Spidey during Spider-Island and preparing a party for him during Ends of the Earth, but it went nowhere, 'cause Spidey got Ock-blocked.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Thank you. I think people should avoid making assumptions about a writer's motivations without proof. I also don't think it's conductive to a conversation to suggest that someone is lying unless you have hard proof. The CBR Forums are supposed to be respectful of and welcoming to comics professionals.



Which editor or editors do you think are insisting that Peter and MJ's relationship remain dead? And can you back it up with proof?

Amazing Spider-Man editor Nick Lowe oversaw a long run where Peter and MJ were a couple, which is what writer Nick Spencer wanted to write.

Now that same editor is overseeing a run where Peter and MJ are not a couple, and writer Zeb Wells has openly said in interviews that that's the story he wanted to write.

Do you have any proof that Peter and MJ's separation is an editorial fiat, and not simply editor Nick Lower allowing the writers to write the relationship status they want to write?

I agree it's up to the writer. But if you agree with that, you also agree it was Slott who kept them apart for 10 years, right? That it was him who, in your words, did not want to write them together.

[clonegeek]

I agree it's up to the writer. But if you agree with that, you also agree it was Slott who kept them apart for 10 years, right? That it was him who, in your words, did not want to write them together.

Spencer in many ways was an outsider to Amazing Spider-Man. He wasn't entrenched in the archaic ideas that let to OMD and the BND era.

[ARkadelphia]

You are aware that people sometimes lie? Actions speak louder than words.

I guess MJ lied about wanting to be with Peter forever, too

[ARkadelphia]

The problem is they are veering dangerously close to Avengers 200, and are already being called out as such for how close they are getting.

What happens when a writer completely messes things up to this degree?

Stop with the Avengers 200 nonsense. In that storyline, Carol Danvers gave birth to the man who raped her.
Let me say that again…

Carol
Gave birth
To her rapist

She was raped, impregnated, and gave birth to the very man who raped her just days before.

Can I say it any other way? Just let that sink in a bit.

While I concur that this Spider-man arc has been terrible, it doesn’t come close to being as bad as avengers 200.

[Lukmendes]

Stop with the Avengers 200 nonsense. In that storyline, Carol Danvers gave birth to the man who raped her.
Let me say that again…

Carol
Gave birth
To her rapist

She was raped, impregnated, and gave birth to the very man who raped her just days before.

Can I say it any other way? Just let that sink in a bit.

While I concur that this Spider-man arc has been terrible, it doesn’t come close to being as bad as avengers 200.

I wonder what was up with Marvel and DC at the time, something similar happened with Karen on the DC side, something about her giving birth to her own grandpa I think?

[Garlador]

Stop with the Avengers 200 nonsense. In that storyline, Carol Danvers gave birth to the man who raped her.
Let me say that again…

Carol
Gave birth
To her rapist

She was raped, impregnated, and gave birth to the very man who raped her just days before.

Can I say it any other way? Just let that sink in a bit.

While I concur that this Spider-man arc has been terrible, it doesn’t come close to being as bad as avengers 200.

The claim of rape was a retcon.

Avengers #200 is a problematic story, and part of that is because they explicitly do NOT call it a rape. It's played straight. The story legitimately paints Marcus as a GOOD MAN who means well that Carol falls for.

The son of a villain who wishes to escape his destroyed dimension, with Carol trapped there with him as his partner to aid in his escape. Through their "solitude" they grew closer. He briefly says he had to use subtle manipulation to make her warm up to him (kind of like "chains"...). She is forced against her will into the role of motherhood. After they escape, he's painted as doing his best to protect her and those she cared about. Carol defends him once this is known and stands up to Hawkeye who calls him out. She says he's a good person and says her feelings for him still remain, and that she feels obligated - partially due to her role as a "mother" - to stay with him over remaining with the heroes.

Any of this sound familiar?

Claremont read the story and was so aghast at how it was handled, he later did Avengers Annual #10 to call it out.

Based on my reading, ASM #25 and #26 are ABSOLUTELY in the same ballpark as Avengers #200. The only saving grace is we don't have Paul knocking up Mary Jane. Thankfully. On the reverse, they did give a brown Muslim girl the "Women in Refrigerators" treatment.

[Triniking1234]

How often were MJ and Peter together after OMD? Cuz I remember the Jackpot tease era when it wasn't her. Then it was Dark Reign so Peter was single for all of that. Then he was with Michelle then Carlie then Doc Ock was in his body with Anna then Mockingbird.

[Frontier]

How often were MJ and Peter together after OMD? Cuz I remember the Jackpot tease era when it wasn't her. Then it was Dark Reign so Peter was single for all of that. Then he was with Michelle then Carlie then Doc Ock was in his body with Anna then Mockingbird.

Like as a couple or in each others' orbit?

She kind of hooked up with SpOck initially before he dumped her and then they teased something at the end of Slott's run that never went anywhere. Spencer's run was the first time they were officially together as a couple again.

[Vortex85]

Like as a couple or in each others' orbit?

She kind of hooked up with SpOck initially before he dumped her and then they teased something at the end of Slott's run that never went anywhere. Spencer's run was the first time they were officially together as a couple again.

Correct, 10 and a half long years Peter and MJ were broken up, from OMD to Spencer. 2008 - mid 2018.