ASM #26 Preview

[Xenon]

It's more about the kids and with them gone. What then? No reason for her and him to stay together

Right. As I'v esaid before, with the kids gone Wells has two options and two choices. He can write MJ in character and reveal it was all about the kids/supporting Paul in his new reality as a friend. Or he can make her a THOT. And he can reveal that now (unlikely) or later. There's only one in character choice. But no one has any faith he'll make it because this whole thing is bad.

[Frontier]

Right. As I'v esaid before, with the kids gone Wells has two options and two choices. He can write MJ in character and reveal it was all about the kids/supporting Paul in his new reality as a friend. Or he can make her a THOT. And he can reveal that now (unlikely) or later. There's only one in character choice. But no one has any faith he'll make it because this whole thing is bad.

Honestly no choice makes anybody come out all that great.

[Spider-Tiger]

No option is a good one. No option is going to salvage the story. "It was all mind control" is only good in the sense that it retcons Mary Jane's nonsense behavior at the beginning of the run. Because it makes no logical sense that she would behave the way that she did even if she did genuinely love Paul. But it's not a good story in and of itself, and a questionable direction if it was intended from the beginning.

(Also, can we refrain from the misogynistic slurs like THOT?)

[Ursalink]

I have a serious conflicts of ideas. On one hand, I'm glad part of this foolishness is over, but on the other hand, I feel guilty for being happy for two kids erased from existence. Even if they were never real.

I have to say, Kamala's death is kinda stupid to happen in a comic that it's not her own. So much time fearing for Mary Jane to be killed, just to be trolled. Somehow I was expecting it.

I admire Ms Marvel, but for some reason, I don't see her death as big deal as it should be; possibly because they did it the wrong way.

[Xenon]

Honestly no choice makes anybody come out all that great.

Oh no we're well past the point of "good" endings to this story. The staying together for the kids is a weak excuse and doesn't really explain why she wouldn't jsut tell him that outside of I guess she knows he'd never give up if he thought she still loved him?

i dunno, I'm reaching. I can make the choice to stay with the kids and not really with Paul to be some kind of misguided noble sacrifice by MJ and it not as horribly out of character as the other option of her both being unfaithful and choosing another man over Peter.

[Xenon]

No option is a good one. No option is going to salvage the story. "It was all mind control" is only good in the sense that it retcons Mary Jane's nonsense behavior at the beginning of the run. Because it makes no logical sense that she would behave the way that she did even if she did genuinely love Paul. But it's not a good story in and of itself, and a questionable direction if it was intended from the beginning.

(Also, can we refrain from the misogynistic slurs like THOT?)

I use shocking language for emotional response because I hate it. It's only meant to be insulting to point out that it is so grossly out of character.

I have a serious conflicts of ideas. On one hand, I'm glad part of this foolishness is over, but on the other hand, I feel guilty for being happy for two kids erased from existence. Even if they were never real.

I have to say, Kamala's death is kinda stupid to happen in a comic that it's not her own. So much time fearing for Mary Jane to be killed, just to be trolled. Somehow I was expecting it.

I admire Ms Marvel, but for some reason, I don't see her death as big deal as it should be; possibly because they did it the wrong way.

Who says its over? AFAWK MJ is still with Paul, so it's still going as far as I'm concerned.

[Mercwmouth12]

I use shocking language for emotional response because I hate it. It's only meant to be insulting to point out that it is so grossly out of character.



Who says its over? AFAWK MJ is still with Paul, so it's still going as far as I'm concerned.

Well for how long. If the kids are gone what's her motivation to stay with Paul?

[Xenon]

Well for how long. If the kids are gone what's her motivation to stay with Paul?

It should be none as I mentioned before. But...well, let me gather my thoughts.

The problem is that they enjoy torturing us and keeping things vague so we're dealing with branching paths here. If her relationship with Paul is platonic as it should be, then she doesn't need to "leave" him because she was never truly with him. He's just a dear friend at that point, a roommate who she trauma bonded with. In that case they can just have her show up and start flirting with Peter and not reveal it until he confronts her about it. Highly possible outcome.

If it's romantic, then I guess I'm wrong and she's just a cheater and they can keep them together for the rest of his run, which will hopefully be cut short.

It could also be something in between. A relationship born of circumstance and the kids, so now with the kids gone they will slowly drift apart. This is just as bad to me though, as it still makes her a cheater and would still be grossly out of character for her to pick Paul over MJ. And honestly, this one feels like it's got a decent chance too, which is upsetting to me.

But we just don't know for sure what they are. Or we do and are just in denial. So it's hard to judge.

[Daibhidh]

If,, as I understand the story, Peter was gone for four years from MJ's point of view, I wouldn't say she was cheating on Peter if she gave up on him coming back after a couple of years. Cheating on Peter implies that she expects him to come back for her.
(Legally I think you're supposed to wait seven years to declare someone dead or gone, but I think MJ, not knowing that Wells has invented completely arbitrary time travel shenanigans with the sole purpose to split her from Peter, would be justified in assuming that if Peter were able to come back he'd have come back straight away.)
Not that I'd defend any other aspect of Wells' reported characterisation of MJ or anyone else in this run - including how she reacts when Peter turns up after all. And I wouldn't put it past Wells to subtly imply that while MJ is superficially justified she is somehow at fault anyway.

[mugen]

If,, as I understand the story, Peter was gone for four years from MJ's point of view, I wouldn't say she was cheating on Peter if she gave up on him coming back after a couple of years. Cheating on Peter implies that she expects him to come back for her.
(Legally I think you're supposed to wait seven years to declare someone dead or gone, but I think MJ, not knowing that Wells has invented completely arbitrary time travel shenanigans with the sole purpose to split her from Peter, would be justified in assuming that if Peter were able to come back he'd have come back straight away.)
Not that I'd defend any other aspect of Wells' reported characterisation of MJ or anyone else in this run - including how she reacts when Peter turns up after all. And I wouldn't put it past Wells to subtly imply that while MJ is superficially justified she is somehow at fault anyway.

It seems to me that MJ is aware of the change in weather she tells peter when he finds her, peter is the guy who spent 6 months looking for her when she was captured by a maniac when everyone believed her died in a plane crash, the one who died for her against morlun and saved her life countless times.
There's no reason other than bad writing for mj to think peter wouldn't come and save her and trick him with a random, it's just intentional character assassination to separate the two of them.

wells has already won the trophy for worst character assassination 2023 for mj, although i'm waiting to see moira mctaggeart who can also claim a second trophy during fall of x.

[Xenon]

If,, as I understand the story, Peter was gone for four years from MJ's point of view, I wouldn't say she was cheating on Peter if she gave up on him coming back after a couple of years. Cheating on Peter implies that she expects him to come back for her.
(Legally I think you're supposed to wait seven years to declare someone dead or gone, but I think MJ, not knowing that Wells has invented completely arbitrary time travel shenanigans with the sole purpose to split her from Peter, would be justified in assuming that if Peter were able to come back he'd have come back straight away.)
Not that I'd defend any other aspect of Wells' reported characterisation of MJ or anyone else in this run - including how she reacts when Peter turns up after all. And I wouldn't put it past Wells to subtly imply that while MJ is superficially justified she is somehow at fault anyway.

I don't think it's reasonable for MJ to assume that he's not coming back for her. He had already created a portal once, though it was with Paul's help. She knows he's the never give up type, so she had to have known he was coming. I'm not really buying her being unfaithful as a reason for her to be unfaithful (jokes!). If she didn't know about the time dilation then it becomes slightly more reasonable for her to lose some faith, but we're never shown a moment their relationship changed beyond them finding the kids, which was only a year later. (and she appears to lose faith earlier. She's wearing a scrap of Peter's outfit when she's all rambo'd out, but it's never seen again after they leave). Like if you love someone I don't think not being in close proximity is justification. Plenty of people throughout history have had to endure multi-year gaps in their relationship. I know Wells tries to sweep it unde the rug with "I never thought I'd see you again", but like, why? Jsut time? That's not really in line with how stubborn she is.

But I could actually excuse that part of it, honestly. Like I wouldn't like it, but if she had just cheated on him because she had lost faith and was horny, I could chalk it up to a crazy situation, a painful mistake, and accept that it's something that happens. The fact that she then shuts Peter down and does....that hospital scene....that's the part where we go into "she cheated on him and never loved him" territory.

[Garlador]

Given how Wells has written MJ thus far, I can safely conclude 1) he has absolutely no idea who Mary Jane is and what her character was established to be, and 2) those thinking it was mind control are giving him too much credit, even if none of her behavior has made any sense this entire run. I fully believe Wells thinks that MJ just IS that cruel, evasive, frustrating, and weak. I can’t point to anything in the run that really tells me I’m wrong, and I very much want to be.

I don’t know. This is a run where right now we’re going “erasing two kids is an improvement”, “they fridged Ms. Marvel in 2023”, and “you know, mind control might be the happiest outcome, even considering the rapey connotations…”

That is DIRE storytelling.

[Knightsilver]

I don't think it's reasonable for MJ to assume that he's not coming back for her. He had already created a portal once, though it was with Paul's help. She knows he's the never give up type, so she had to have known he was coming. I'm not really buying her being unfaithful as a reason for her to be unfaithful (jokes!). If she didn't know about the time dilation then it becomes slightly more reasonable for her to lose some faith, but we're never shown a moment their relationship changed beyond them finding the kids, which was only a year later. (and she appears to lose faith earlier. She's wearing a scrap of Peter's outfit when she's all rambo'd out, but it's never seen again after they leave). Like if you love someone I don't think not being in close proximity is justification. Plenty of people throughout history have had to endure multi-year gaps in their relationship. I know Wells tries to sweep it unde the rug with "I never thought I'd see you again", but like, why? Jsut time? That's not really in line with how stubborn she is.

But I could actually excuse that part of it, honestly. Like I wouldn't like it, but if she had just cheated on him because she had lost faith and was horny, I could chalk it up to a crazy situation, a painful mistake, and accept that it's something that happens. The fact that she then shuts Peter down and does....that hospital scene....that's the part where we go into "she cheated on him and never loved him" territory.

Maybe the big reveal will be that this isn't the real MJ? We've already brought magic into it...saying this is a phony MJ would be easy enough...and undo all this character destruction.

[Ursalink]

I use shocking language for emotional response because I hate it. It's only meant to be insulting to point out that it is so grossly out of character.



Who says its over? AFAWK MJ is still with Paul, so it's still going as far as I'm concerned.

It's not TOTALLY over, but at least part of it is. I mean, from the very beginning, I had a suspiction those kids were like "Sins Past 2.0", and I was kinda right in the end.

[Garlador]

It's not TOTALLY over, but at least part of it is. I mean, from the very beginning, I had a suspiction those kids were like "Sins Past 2.0", and I was kinda right in the end.

Unironically, Mary Jane’s defense of Paul is incredibly similar to Gwen’s defense of Norman…