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  1. #436
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    No further explanation is needed. MJ was stranded in a parallel universe for years and thought that she would never see Peter again. How long should she have waited? 10 years? 30 years? 60 years?

  2. #437
    Incredible Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post

    The difference is one gave agency to the character. The other had her get brainwashed and then raped.

    Pretty significant difference. Downplaying that is... not great.

    MJ has never considered Peter her only option in any media. Hell in the rami trilogy which everyone considered the best rendition of spidey she striaght up cheats lol

    Now she's some ride or die girl with no other options? What MJ have yall been reading?

  3. #438
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    So does she keep the knowledge of Peter's identity when she comes back? Or do they find a way to wipe it out like they did in Marvel Team Up?
    All I wanted was to be unconditionally loved while never having to work on my flaws. Is that so much to ask?

  4. #439
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Exactly.

    Tough pill to swallow but there is ZERO expectation that she should have stayed "pure" for him or whatever. And anyone saying there is needs to evaluate themselves.
    I'd say a better explanation is owed given that they are outright getting comparisons to Avengers 200.

    This is disgusting in the worst way possible.

  5. #440
    Fantastic Member mugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I just want to point out in the MJ/BC mini that MJ said Peter didn't know about her new powers and she made Felicia promise not to reveal them to Peter.

    And in this issue, Peter has no reaction when he sees MJ using said new powers, and then says her powers are too unreliable (to take on the big bad).

    So MJ just lied to Felicia for no reason?
    zeb well just completely forgot, it's been a long time since there's more consistency anyway

  6. #441

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    This was gooooooood! This issue had me getting more amped up as i went from page to page and Romita really brought it this issue. If it wasn't spoiled, which i didn't read, it would have been a great twist and it was done well enough that i think if not spoiled it actually would have worked and surprised the reader without dragging it on. We now know who paul is, i feel the kamala part was only weakened by the fact that i am not a fan of a character that is suppose to be part of book or show only getting their moment in the episode they are about to die but as a stand alone it was really good. This feels like the first issue Wells was allowed to write on his own and the big problem with spiderman imo is the editors want to be the writers rather than just editing and i think spiderman sorely needs an entire new head editor or he will never move forward.

    Good way to end the villain. I laughed out loud at the scene when the FF showed up the timing of "continue being stupid" just worked so well. It also turns out the kids were magic many called that but in different ways, since it's across time and space i feel the kids were actually a version of the kids MJ and Pete would have so they may come back into play if One more day and memphisto do. Also it was made pretty clear though MJ may be with Paul he is definitely the best of a situation and admittedlyby MJ reminds her of Peter. But i think what is now going to keep them together and complicate things is the grieving for the lost children. Easily 8.5 out of 10 for me.

    The voices for the FF was like night and day from the last issue. Much stronger here. "your still the weirdest guy i know..." "i love it!" lol
    Last edited by jwatson; 05-31-2023 at 12:12 PM.
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  7. #442
    Incredible Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I'd say a better explanation is owed given that they are outright getting comparisons to Avengers 200.

    This is disgusting in the worst way possible.
    Those comparisons are asinine. The stories aren't in any way similar outside of rhe fact they involve time travel.

    Carol got *brainwashed and raped*. Like you can remove that aspect of the story to try and make this connection work. But removing that aspect of the conco is disingenuous as best.

    If anything it reflects the attitude a lot of readers have about MJ, which, based on responses to this run are a lot less respectable than I wss hoping.

    Way too many comments basicslly saying if she isn't with Peter then she's as good as a w**re and a thot. Real classy stuff. In fact someone actually used the word thot a few pages back.
    Last edited by Toonstrack; 05-31-2023 at 12:14 PM.

  8. #443
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    The difference is one gave agency to the character. The other had her get brainwashed and then raped.

    Pretty significant difference. Downplaying that is... not great.

    MJ has never considered Peter her only option in any media. Hell in the rami trilogy which everyone considered the best rendition of spidey she striaght up cheats lol

    Now she's some ride or die girl with no other options? What MJ have yall been reading?
    What agency did MJ have in this run? She had been reduced to an object that Peter is sad he can't have.

  9. #444
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Those comparisons are asinine. The stories aren't in any way similar outside of rhe fact they involve time travel.

    Carol got *brainwashed and raped*. Like you can remove that aspect of the story to try and make this connection work. But removing that aspect of the conco is disingenuous as best.

    If anything it reflects the attitude a lot of readers have about MJ, which, based on responses to this run are a lot less respectable than I wss hoping.
    Are you familiar with the concept of stockholm syndrome? Because that is what this is. That is what has been presented to us, the audience. It's not about giving MJ agency. It's about depicting her as an object that Peter is sad he can't have. We never get into her head. It's all about Peter and his sadness that he can't have the object that he wants.
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 05-31-2023 at 12:17 PM.

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Oh cmon. Rabin got finessed but Peter was beating his ass before he ported away.
    He got two shots in on a guy that’s beat his ass every time they’ve locked up. Rabin likely didn’t even think Spidey was worth bothering with
    1312

  11. #446
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    https://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/20...ala-khan-died/

    Let's not forget the racism on full display with this comic either.

  12. #447
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    What agency did MJ have in this run? She had been reduced to an object that Peter is sad he can't have.
    Right on!

    I am amazed anyone claiming to be a fan thinks this run is in any way less than putrid.

    If you like this run, I suggest you check out Spidey’s “One More Day” and “Sins Past.” If you love Paul, MJ, the kids, Rabin and Wyep, then you’ll love “One More Day” and “Sins Past.”

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I just want to point out in the MJ/BC mini that MJ said Peter didn't know about her new powers and she made Felicia promise not to reveal them to Peter.

    And in this issue, Peter has no reaction when he sees MJ using said new powers, and then says her powers are too unreliable (to take on the big bad).

    So MJ just lied to Felicia for no reason?

    Another thing I forgot. Like it's a minor thing, but why isn't Peter shocked by that part? He just knows how they work and doesn't think anything of it? Like it's a major weapon in their arsenal if he knows about it but just...nothing? Cmon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    I'll give it a 4 out of 5. It's not even a bad issue by any stretch.

    Im not gonna rate the book bad because I don't like spifey editorial. It's a good issue.

    And I actually like how Kamala dies here.. on her own terms and in a way that actually tricked me out. I got spoiled the fact she died but I didn't know the circumstances of it. This was actually a pretty clever usage of her abilities, and the arc explains her presence in the series and why it was so discreet up til now. She was quite literally undercover.

    Paul's origin being revealed lines up with what I said befire... that MJ saw in him whats she saw in Peter. Hes a lot like him and thats why she fell for him. I get it.

    Its gonna take a while for cooler heads to prevail here on this but by and large this was a decent book. The arc itself was not as good as the earlier ones but I like the finish here.
    I wish I read the book you did. Do the kids having no purpose not bother you? Them winning by basically luck? MJ again being heartless to Peter means nothing? I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Oh cmon. Rabin got finessed but Peter was beating his ass before he ported away.
    Yeah and it meant nothing. Rabin teleported away and Peter contributed nothing to the solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Exactly.

    Tough pill to swallow but there is ZERO expectation that she should have stayed "pure" for him or whatever. And anyone saying there is needs to evaluate themselves.
    It's not purity its faithfulness. And again, these takes seem slightly misogynistic as they're all about Peter, but that's misguided thinking and not treating Mary Jane with her own agency. Mary Jane is in love with Peter when she is thrown into that dimension. When you're in love with someone you want to see them, you want to be with them. Other people become less appealing (I mean, not entirely, obviously). I do think she owed a duty to Peter based on their relationship status, but also she has a duty to herself and what she wants. And what she wants was Peter Parker. Why did that go away? Why would she not care about hurting someone she loves? It just makes her a bad person. And again, even if there wasn't faithfulness, there should still be love. Choosing them over Peter should have been heartbreaking for her, but she doesn't act like she cares at all. Anyone who's just like "eh, time passed" is ignoring her agency in the situation and what her character would want. That's a huge problem.

  14. #449
    Mighty Member Alex_Of_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Haven't other characters been finishing Peter's problems for him since like the 3rd arc? It feels like he barely does anything any more.

    I think the problem with the MJ moment is that Peter is bringing up valid concerns about Paul and Paul just takes a swing at him and suddenly MJ is trying to defend him and equating the two when they're really not comparable at all and it comes off as a MJ disrespecting Peter for Paul. It just doesn't feel in-character at all, especially over someone that's barely a character. MJ is better than this.

    I dunno, it feels like a pretty bad death scene. Doesn't play to her strengths, doesn't have her go out as Ms. Marvel, continuity-wise it doesn't really make sense, and it has bad optics the more you think about it. I'd rank it pretty low as far as Superhero deaths go and Kamala deserved far better. The worst part is them acting like she's a significant part of this run when she wasn't, which makes it all the more glaring.


    I think action is probably the only thing consistently good about JrJr's art at this point because facial expressions and character models are not one of them. Though the inconsistent coloring doesn't help either.
    spoilers:
    IDK, if my superpowered ex who can bench-press a semi barges in and calls my s.o. a monster, I'd say they'd be justified in slugging the ex. Paul's a real guy to MJ; the way we feel or don't feel about him shouldn't affect her at all.

    I liked that Kamala used a power of hers to outsmart Rabin. Would i have liked her to use that power recently, just t remind us she can? Sure. But i didn't read her Dark Web mini, so that might be on me. Agreed on her not being a significant part of the run, tho.

    The avengers 200 comparisons are weird in that no one gives birth to their lover here, but idk, maybe my copy got misprinted. If so--I don't wanna see it, tnx
    end of spoilers

  15. #450
    Mighty Member Garlador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    The difference is one gave agency to the character. The other had her get brainwashed and then raped.

    Pretty significant difference. Downplaying that is... not great.
    You realize the “she was brainwashed” explanation came later, right? The original issue played it completely straight and presented it as Carol legitimately falling in love with the guy she was trapped with. It even has the other characters say it’s her choice to make.

    It was such a bad story that Claremont came back swinging and retconned it as mind control and rape, and chewed her former teammates out, but issue 200 was intended to be taken at face value.

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