ASM #26 Preview

[Xenon]

1. Whats a good reason that would satisfy you? Because you views on women in general are already deeply in question as far as im concerned based on your comments here. Your perspective on this isnt objective either way you slice it. People are different. Just because you would choose not to move on and wait an eternity doesn't mean that any woman who doesn't is morally lesser.

To be frank there isn’t a good reason, this story should not have been written and they shouldn’t’ have been split up. But there are better reasons, understandable reasons. If the portal device blew up instead or if a building fell on PEter or if she got a fake message where Peter told her he wasn’t coming. She has to have a reason to give up on him beyond just “time”

You continue to try and back away and argue from a general perspective (and engage in ad hominem) because you don’t know the character. “People are different” is not an argument, it’s an attempt to hand wave. Mary JAne isn’t some random person who just showed up. We know who she is because there are literally fifty five years of stories with her in it. We know her hopes and dreams and desires and personality. We can argue what a person SHOULD do, but ultiamately that’s secondary to what Mary Jane WOULD do. And a Mary Jane who was in a relationship with Peter isn’t going to move on. That’s just not in her character. She didn’t move on when she separated from him, crying as she called him, afraid that he had slept with another woman. She tried to move on when he proposed and after OMIT, but found herself back in his orbit in short order. This is a woman who pursues unrealistic goals to be an actress and model. Who stayed with Peter when he was wanted by the government. Who would have bore his child had Norman not killed them. Mary JAne wouldn’t’ have moved on from PEter because she’s loyal to him, that’s true, but she wouldn’t move on from him because Peter is who she wanted. He’s who she’s wanted since she was 17 years old. That’s why she wouldn’t’ make that choice, because it’s not what SHE wants, more than anything.

2.she didn't cheat. After years of separation noncommunicatioj and unknowns its silly to imagine any woman would consider that a lock down, let alone Mary Jane flicking Watson.

This is again a ridiculous assertion. She was moving Peter into her apartment when they were transported. They were completely in love and commmitted. The idea that you dont’ think a person could wait a. Few years for someone is absurd.

3. Your recounting of her past only solidifies that she makes her own choices regardless of what oeter presently wants, and has always done so. You acknowledge those choices from the past, so you should be able to do so now because they are her choices. Just because you dont like the choice she made here doesn't mean she didn't make it.

This is again just a attempt at self-proving without providing any backing

“The character wouldn’t do that”
“But that did”’
“That’s why it’s bad”.

Mary Jane wouldn’t choose to move on from PEter in that situation any more than she would abandon those kids. That’s what people are mad about. I will not accept that sort of character assassination. Because it does make her a weak heartless cheat. And Mary Jane is not and should not be written as a weak heartless cheat.

4. You dotn recognize what they want. She told you what she wants and you are choosing not to recognize it. You're trying to box her in to one thing and refusing to accept any other version of reality. Even though this is one that's been presented with her character countless times. Litery. Rami did it, ultimately spidey did it, spectacular spidey kinda sorta hinted at it, ultimate iirc did it, etc. This isnt even anything new for MJ.

TAgain, this is just you saying you’ll accept whatever trash your given. If she goes on a shooting spree in the next issue you can’t complain it’s Out of character because “that’s the choice she made. That’s not an argument.

[Astroman]

If this run is so horrible, why is it on issue 26 and nick spencer run only lasted 15 issues. Somebody is definitely being gaslighted if this universally panned run is still going but books like Ewing Guardians, or ultimates ended soon. Something isn't right in the koolaid. Comic fans say time and again when it comes to minority characters there is no space because they don't see it, they can't get the numbers, so if it is all about the numbers how is this book still going if it's as universally panned as diversity movements...

Spencer's run was 75 issues long. What are you talking about? And have you been following the info about the 200 ratio variant cover crap regarding sales?

[Tuck]

Like I said prior in a different thread. If you cannot see a future for MJ as a character, that doesnt involve Peter, then why should they be together? Thats not a character then thats a place holder. A status symbol that benefits the man at the expense of the females characterization. Nothing like MJ.

She's a Spider-Man supporting character. She exists to help tell Spider-Man stories.

There's value in having some depth to the canvas as far as her background and what she does away from Peter, but if she's not connected to Peter, her character's literal purpose is erased.

(She can be (and has been) used elsewhere, but why does a Spider-Man reader give a good goddamn if she is?)

This is no different than Jameson.

[jwatson]

Spencer's run was 75 issues long. What are you talking about? And have you been following the info about the 200 ratio variant cover crap regarding sales?

Ahhh okay so it was one series with 75 straight issues? And how many issues was north run?

[Xenon]

If this run is so horrible, why is it on issue 26 and nick spencer run only lasted 15 issues. Somebody is definitely being gaslighted if this universally panned run is still going but books like Ewing Guardians, or ultimates ended soon. Something isn't right in the koolaid. Comic fans say time and again when it comes to minority characters there is no space because they don't see it, they can't get the numbers, so if it is all about the numbers how is this book still going if it's as universally panned as diversity movements...

Spencer’s run pasted 75 issues and three years. It only ended because another company hired him out from MArvel.


It gets numbers because Alf a combination of hate buyers, zombie buyers, and variant cover spam. 25 will be the best selling book of May because it has 20 variant covers and shops had to order 200 copies to get the most rare one. 26 will be high up on the list too, it also has like 13 variants. ?in fact every issue in the run has had at least five variants. Also people like me were trying to be fair and give Wells a chance to explain his bad status quo. He failed at that, so I dropped the book today.

[jwatson]

Spencer’s run pasted 75 issues and three years. It only ended because another company hired him out from MArvel.


It gets numbers because Alf a combination of hate buyers, zombie buyers, and variant cover spam. 25 will be the best selling book of May because it has 20 variant covers and shops had to order 200 copies to get the most rare one. 26 will be high up on the list too, it also has like 13 variants. ?in fact every issue in the run has had at least five variants. Also people like me were trying to be fair and give Wells a chance to explain his bad status quo. He failed at that, so I dropped the book today.

And spencer had less variants? Just trying to put it into context.

[Lee]

Practically every American comic book periodical has variant covers.

[cranger]

And spencer had less variants? Just trying to put it into context.

Everything gets variant cover spam. The Gleason webhead covers alone probably paid for Spencer's writing.

And for context, there are no sales charts that will show all the bulk retailers ordered to meet ratios like there was during Spencer, so it is moot.

[Garlador]

Practically every American comic book periodical has variant covers.

But not always the same number. A comic with two variants is obviously going to sell differently to one with 12 variants.

[Lee]

But not always the same number. A comic with two variants is obviously going to sell differently to one with 12 variants.

At the bigger publishers, the comics that can support the most variants get the most variants. That's usually new launches, "event" issues, and reliably strong selling series. There's no secret ploy to make Amazing Spider-Man perform better than Avengers or X-Men.

Some of the smaller publishers lean heavily on variant covers and the collector's market, but a Dynamite comic with 20 variant covers probably won't do as well as a Marvel comic with 2 variant covers.

[Inversed]

She's a Spider-Man supporting character. She exists to help tell Spider-Man stories.

There's value in having some depth to the canvas as far as her background and what she does away from Peter, but if she's not connected to Peter, her character's literal purpose is erased.

(She can be (and has been) used elsewhere, but why does a Spider-Man reader give a good goddamn if she is?)

This is no different than Jameson.

Yeah, it is a weird disingenuous argument to question her "purpose as a character that doesn't involve Peter" when you can say that about literally every Spider-Man supporting character. Because it will always circle back to their connection to Peter, since that's how writing Spider-Man stories work.

If you're trying to argue about her role in the story beyond a romantic interest, this run isn't really a good example for that, considering her entire purpose has just been to perpetuate the "forbidden love" angle, and has not been able to do anything independent of that.

If it's supposed to be about her moving on from him then ACTUALLY go through with that and give her something different to do. You could lean in more to that idea of her being a spokeswoman for Krakoa, that has alot of interesting avenues you could go in (I know it nearly ended badly for her but still). Or just go all in and make her Felicia's partner-in-crime, we already know that can work really well.

[Frontier]

i'm fine with them. At the end of the day they are two characters who are out here trying to live a life while essentially still married. it was magicked away. I would argue nothing they have done since can be in character because they are both missing memories, time, i mean it's like expecting two amnesiacs to just go through the flow just because someone once said they were lovers. they can try to piece back the pieces but the story will never have a foundation or be real.

I mean, Peter's a hot mess in this run who is either irritable, angry, or barely accomplishing anything even when he's supposed to be on his game while MJ is shifty, vague, and non-commital and frankly acting like the love of her life isn't worth her time.

Nobody is coming out of this looking great.

Yeah, it is a weird disingenuous argument to question her "purpose as a character that doesn't involve Peter" when you can say that about literally every Spider-Man supporting character. Because it will always circle back to their connection to Peter, since that's how writing Spider-Man stories work.

If you're trying to argue about her role in the story beyond a romantic interest, this run isn't really a good example for that, considering her entire purpose has just been to perpetuate the "forbidden love" angle, and has not been able to do anything independent of that.

If it's supposed to be about her moving on from him then ACTUALLY go through with that and give her something different to do. You could lean in more to that idea of her being a spokeswoman for Krakoa, that has alot of interesting avenues you could go in (I know it nearly ended badly for her but still). Or just go all in and make her Felicia's partner-in-crime, we already know that can work really well.

At least in the one-shot and less so when you force powers and kids on her like in Dark Web.

[stillanerd]

So now we know what it was that Paul told MJ. And knowing that truth, and getting to know him as intimately as she had, bonded them closer it seems.

MARY JANE: "Don't you see, Peter? Paul may have been duped into helping his dad end the world and murdered him for it, but I could see he felt really, really bad about it. Just like you feel really, really bad about letting that Burglar go who went on to kill your Uncle Ben. That's what makes him such a good person like you Peter, and he's such a tortured soul about being causing genocide and patricide that that's why I fell in love with him."

PETER: "MJ...I know your name is slang for weed, but that doesn't mean you actually have to be stoned out of your f***ing mind!"

[jwatson]

MARY JANE: "Don't you see, Peter? Paul may have been duped into helping his dad end the world and murdered him for it, but I could see he felt really, really bad about it. Just like you feel really, really bad about letting that Burglar go who went on to kill your Uncle Ben. That's what makes him such a good person like you Peter, and he's such a tortured soul about being causing genocide and patricide that that's why I fell in love with him."

PETER: "MJ...I know your name is slang for weed, but that doesn't mean you actually have to be stoned out of your f***ing mind!"

I mean if your willing to throw your marriage away to Mephisto to save Aunt may is anything really off the table? They threw away their love for a 100 year old woman. I mean this is surprising? Peter, MJ, definitely got duped on that deal. It's not like this was an annulment, they gave up a large chunk of who the characters essentially were so maybe people are right, this can't be the same MJ or Peter. But again that's on marvel and i can't carry that into every story cause marvel obviously don't.

[Inversed]

At least in the one-shot and less so when you force powers and kids on her like in Dark Web.

I will still argue the powers are cool, but hey the kids are gone so that's one problem solved lol