ASM #26 Preview

[Hoodj]

>People are saying MJ isnt an object to fantasize wanting Peter to have sex with
>People are talking about MJ like shes an object Peter deserves sex from.

This is just like Bowser x Peach fans but civil and not nsfw incel garbage.

[Brian B]

Seriously...why is Kamala who is only barely connected with Spider-Man...killed off in his book? It would've made more sense to kill off May,Betty,Jonah,or literally anyone who was a Spider-Man character.

It makes no sense at all. That’s all there is to it.

[Garlador]

You are comparing her self sacrificing acts to murdering innocent bystanders and pretending those are both equivalent for this character is kinda telling.

You didn’t answer their question. Where do you draw the line that someone acts out of character?

And the biggest thing they have is that MJ made the choice to move on. That is a reality they refuse to accept. Not that it didn't happen. They just refuse to accept it.

Defenders of this keep ignoring the huge point that this whole ordeal was FORCED upon her. This isn’t as simple as she met a guy at a coffee shop she felt a connection with.

This is a traumatic situation where she was captured and imprisoned with literally only one other adult for years, creating a relationship based on survival codependency and Complex PTSD. This is NOT a normal or healthy relationship created from normal or healthy attraction. It’s literally stuff therapists get involved with to ascertain mental competence and trauma recovery options.

Nobody should be claiming “oh, she just MOVED ON.”

[Toonstrack]

Well there ya go, that's the whole problem, MJ is a modern women and she chose to move on. If you need to go back a century to behold a woman to the standard you hold or think should be held by all there is really nothing else to be said. you feel from what i am reading based on how you see MJ she should have waited and anything less for any reason at all is just out of character. It's a far reaching fixed opinion that this story could have only happened one way, MJ waiting for Peter, while i disagree, that's okay to have but it doesn't make the work bad.

Mj has ALWAYS been a modern woman and Peter had to chase her to even really get her attention. She has never been longing for some dude to sweep her off, nd she has never held her life in place hoping that one would. She is a free spriit and lives her life on the sails of the wind and when things change she adapts to that change.

That has always, always always been her character. Anyone arguing she'd have sat there and waited x amount of years or decades isnt approaching this honestly bur with their feelings and preconceived bias.

Like I said prior in a different thread. If you cannot see a future for MJ as a character, that doesnt involve Peter, then why should they be together? Thats not a character then thats a place holder. A status symbol that benefits the man at the expense of the females characterization. Nothing like MJ.

[Frontier]

I did not read his run to be honest but again marvel has a fudamental issue here. you can't marry a couple, erase it, and then expect people to go on buying them as now boyfriend and girlfriend dealing with the same side pieces. you just can't stuff the genie back in the bottle. And apparently it was because it aged the character so now they are essentially saying unitil that is broken that Peter is essentially Peter Pan. Even wendy didn't want to stay in neverland and went on to have a family.

That's why Spencer's run was such a breath of fresh air. And had far better writing of Peter and MJ both individually and together.

Mj has ALWAYS been a modern woman and Peter had to chase her to even really get her attention. She has never been longing for some dude to sweep her off, nd she has never held her life in place hoping that one would. She is a free spriit and lives her life on the sails of the wind and when things change she adapts to that change.

That has always, always always been her character. Anyone arguing she'd have sat there and waited x amount of years or decades isnt approaching this honestly bur with their feelings and preconceived bias.

Like I said prior in a different thread. If you cannot see a future for MJ as a character, that doesnt involve Peter, then why should they be together? Thats not a character then thats a place holder. A status symbol that benefits the man at the expense of the females characterization. Nothing like MJ.

He wasn't really chasing after MJ at least when they initially got together. If anything MJ was interested in him early because she knew he was Spider-Man but played it off because she was insecure and awkward, but eventually was there for him when Gwen died which is when they actually fell in love. And when they're together she's basically a solid rock for him and supports him through thick and thin, and has done so for years.

[Toonstrack]

You didn’t answer their question. Where do you draw the line that someone acts out of character?

Hes not answered my question about how long is ok before moving on either but sure ill play along.

I draw the line at doing something I can't imagine a character doing. And I can imagine MJ moving on from Peter after a couple of years because she's moved on from him many times in various forms of media and has almost never been tied down to him in that sense.

[Xenon]

Indeed, and at the same time they won't care as much if Peter has several girls while MJ is across the street. Because they expect MJ will still be waiting on him no matter how many girls he decides to have between then. But MJ moving on after 4 years after being allowed to actually get to know another character deeply and intimately in the process is preposterous and blasphemous to them it seems.

And the biggest thing they have is that MJ made the choice to move on. That is a reality they refuse to accept. Not that it didn't happen. They just refuse to accept it.

Because it's poorly written. Again, if issue 27 Peter picks up a gun and smokes Dr. Octopus, we're going to say that's out of character and poorly written. you're not defending your position, you're just saying "the comic did a thing so the thing is good" That's terrible.

The rest of this is a straw man. It's true that people aren't as emotionally upset by Peter gettin with other women because people relate to the comic through Peter. But most of the people that hate this don't want Peter with another woman, they want OMD undone and the marriage restored.

Didnt he just say Peter aint a soilder or a equvilent to one, bad anaolgy. Peter is not owed pussy because he seeks it. Its like Mario and Peach, alot of games make Mario dote over Peach yet she just considers him a good friend and doesnt return his interests other than some hints and teases. The more corrupted and sadly realistic version of this is Bowser and Peach which is just a incel projection of a manchild with violent and agressive tendencies just being owed a wife or sex slave. Overall, MJ gets treated at the end of the day an object of a mans desires than a individial in stories like this.

MJ and Peter are in a committed relationship, so there is so level of fidelity he is owed. He doesn't have to be a soldier for the situation to be comparable. The point remains the same. Sometimes couples are seperated for long periods of time due to work and other obligations. That doesn't mean they stop loving each other. But this is ultimately a straw man. MJ is a character with wants and desires and morals and a personality all her own. SHe's in hundreds of issues. And in the most recent issues, she was in love with Peter Parker and saying they were in it together and always were. And that woman is not going to WANT another man. That woman is going to want HER man. It's insulting to her to think she'd just settle because one guy is there and the other can't be.

No my argument would be you think your opinion matters on what makes a woman moral to herself and while it is an okay (as in everyone has one) opinion to have ultimately it doesn't and shouldn't matter to her. MJ has been written as sure of her choices and that's what matters.

Fidelity is a pretty universal value.

I think what matters is whether her character and her relationship with Peter is being written consistently and...it just doesn't feel like it is.

Cause it absolutely isn't.

But that isn't what matters. The spiderman office chose to give them a divorce. Once they were no longer married MJ doesn't owe peter anything or vice versa and for the most part he has lived his life like he doesn't. Editorial can't have it both ways otherwise they are holding mj hostage and that takes her agency away.

Do you think there are only two relationship status'? Married and single? Cause that's ridiculous. Like plenty of people in modern day society get involved in committed relationships without being married. Plenty of people live with their significant other without being married. They still expect faithfulness. This isn't a big ask.

She didn't cheat lol. They arent even married. She didn't even know if Peter was alive or what happened to him. Of course she wanted to be saved, that doesnt contrsdict her act. But she moved on because she obviously relaxed this was going to be a long haul and possibly permanent and she had people to protect.

Paul never said he helped genocide anyone. He said he helped build the machines and tech, not knowing what his father wanted to do with them.

So he helped with the genocide. Unknowingly, but he still helped. The unknowingly is a big part to be fair, and honestly I dont' blame him entirely, but killing your entire world is a pretty big sin.

And you don't have to be married to be in a committed relationship. People do it every day. Again, your argument is "time passed", which is weaksauce. Real love doesn't go away just because of time.

Her writing has been incredibly wishy-washy which again, I have to assume is all based on the mystery box and wanting to keep the readers guessing. She completely shuts him down in the flashback after rescuing her, then distant in Issue 1, awkwardly friendly when they meet at Osborns, conflictingly distant during the Hellfire Gala stuff, openly friendly during Harry's birthday, doesn't want to talk about him at all during Dark Web, very sour during the trip with Felicia, and now here.

The writing is purposefully trying to keep it vague how much she wants to be with him, and how much she wants to deal with her own "responsibility", which could work, but it's all over the place we pretty much won't know what the true intention is supposed to be until the literal ending.



I think that's the major point of contention that keeps getting lumped in with all the bad faith criticism that the writers and editors can then easily rebuff. "MJ is dating someone other than Peter" isn't the problem. "MJ is dating someone who transparently only exists so she isn't with Peter" is the problem. If it was actually about her moving on, than her new relationship should actually be better written and more developed.

MJ dating someone othe than Peter is a problem in the same way that Peter dating someone that isn't MJ is a problem and has been a problem for fifteen years. But that's not the ONLY problem here. It's that they started this without giving Mary Jane a proper reason to give up on Peter and while she was in a relationship with Peter. Like if they had been broken up when this happened everyone would still hate it, sure, but it woudlnt' be the same kind of character assassination because she would have been in a place where her getting with someone else made sense. The problems all arise because MJ was in a relationship with Peter at the time.

[Toonstrack]

>People are saying MJ isnt an object to fantasize wanting Peter to have sex with
>People are talking about MJ like shes an object Peter deserves sex from.

This is just like Bowser x Peach fans but civil and not nsfw incel garbage.

The fact readers forgive Peter for attacking her boyfriend, calling her at unwanted times, bursting into their place to interrogate the bf, but somehow she's the bad guy for keeping him at a distance is very telling.

Like my entire perspective of the spidey readerbase is shifting because of this arc. A lot of them are striaght up wierd in their readings of female characters. Very lopsided and... wierd.

[Garlador]

Hes not answered my question about how long is ok before moving on either but sure ill play along.

You want MY answer?

I would die waiting for my partner, and she knows it.

[Toonstrack]

So he helped with the genocide. Unknowingly, but he still helped. The unknowingly is a big part to be fair, and honestly I dont' blame him entirely, but killing your entire world is a pretty big sin.

Well, he didn't kill the world lol. And let's be f***n real for a sec. This is the same world Tony Stark is still considered a hero. And scarlet witch. He's way down on the list of regrettable acts. Spidey still hangs out with those guys so.

[Frontier]

The fact readers forgive Peter for attacking her boyfriend, calling her at unwanted times, bursting into their place to interrogate the bf, but somehow she's the bad guy for keeping him at a distance is very telling.

Like my entire perspective of the spidey readerbase is shifting because of this arc. A lot of them are striaght up wierd in their readings of female characters. Very lopsided and... wierd.

To be fair he had a very valid reasoning to question Paul there. And I don't think he's gone that out of line other than the stalking which was very OOC.

[Kevinroc]

The story didn't remove her choices. You are.

The story didn't give her those kids, Rabin did to trick her. She is the one who chose to take care of them. She didn't have to do that. You're removing that choice.

MJ is not an object, you just don't like that her character exists outside of Peter's. They arent attached at the hip. Thats what makes her not an object. You want her to be an accessory.

Felicia also is not an accessory. Shes loved peter for a while and their bond has grown over the years. She definitely does help him cope; but thats no different than what MJ did a lot of their stories even when they were married. Her and oeter make a good couple.

Kamala made a heroes sacrifice to save people as many others before her have done. She had full agency in that choice and its ones here's make all the time make and female.

You trying to make this about all women or some nonsense is all your own interjection. And the very logic betrays itself.

So if a woman isn't attached to a man for any sort of character that's bad. If she IS attached to a man for the character its bad. Abd if a character makes a choice that leads to them beingharmed that's also bad.

What exactly do you think these women characters are here to do other than be accessories for peter because that's about the only option you're allowing them.

I didn't write this story. I didn't edit this story. I don't work for Marvel. I had nothing to do with any of the decisions within the pages of this story.

The decision to take in those children or not is a false one. Of course MJ, from her perspective, isn't going to leave some random children to die. (The fact that they aren't real is irrelevant to the topic at hand.) But I do want to address the fact that Paul didn't want to take them in. Are we supposed to think MJ entered into a relationship with someone who would willingly leave some random children to die? Again, the relationship between MJ and Paul is left too nebulous to think it's anything more than bait to outrage readers. It's still ill-defined at 26 issues into this volume. We haven't even seen them kiss on-panel after 26 issues. MJ is just an item that Peter can't get and is sad about, and Paul is the shelf that keeps Peter from reaching the item that is MJ.

Felicia is barely around in this run. The series seems to forget that Peter is supposed to be in a relationship with her and instead treats her as an item that makes Peter feel better. She isn't a character. She's a consolation prize.

And Kamala's "heroic sacrifice" was absolutely racist. Her death was meant to be a fake-out to bait readers into thinking MJ had been killed, but it's okay because they killed the brown girl instead.

You claiming this run is anything more than vehemently sexist and vehemently racist doesn't make it so.

[Toonstrack]

You want MY answer?

I would die waiting for my partner, and she knows it.

Thats not the question I asked.

None of you are approaching this honestly. Because you all know MJ wouldn't wait forever. Shes never been that way.

Theres no right or wrong to it. There are different people. MJ isn't one of those whod wait til death. And if you were expecting that I question what MJ content you've even been reading.

[Frontier]

Thats not the question I asked.

None of you are approaching this honestly. Because you all know MJ wouldn't wait forever. Shes never been that way.

Theres no right or wrong to it. There are different people. MJ isn't one of those whod wait til death. And if you were expecting that I question what MJ content you've even been reading.

BND MJ probably wouldn't.

[Kevinroc]

Thats not the question I asked.

None of you are approaching this honestly. Because you all know MJ wouldn't wait forever. Shes never been that way.

Theres no right or wrong to it. There are different people. MJ isn't one of those whod wait til death. And if you were expecting that I question what MJ content you've even been reading.

MJ is notoriously stubborn and notoriously in love with Peter Parker.

They were still together when she got stranded in another dimension.

She would wait for him for as long as it took. She would never lose faith in him.

That is how these types of stories go.

But this story is sexist, so...