ASM #26 Preview

[Mercwmouth12]

They screwed up MJ & Peter's relationship... again
They made MJ horrible to read about... again
They tried, and failed, to make Jackpot a thing... again
They killed off a popular character that we know will appear again because movies... again
They're trying to pass of Kamala's passing like it was Captain America

Yeah, it's been a long time that I actually bothered to actually read ASM as we're now in the, what... 6th?, reboot/new volume of the series.
I've been collecting since Volume 1 in the 1990s, and to be honest, all I do with the ASM series is bag/board it and add it into the collection. These books haven't been interesting since they brought Peter back to his brain/body after the first run of Superior Spider-Man.

Wait till they' get to Felicia. You'll wish she was never is asm again. it will be glorious and an awful read

[InfamousBG]

All that just to lead up to this?????????!!!!!!!!!!! I am missing something right????????? Wow this was bad. Like really bad. All of the lead up and we get this. I am pretty upset as most of you here. I have been reading Spidey for 41 years. I will keep reading Spidey and will never stop but this...after the Beyond thing I thought something big was coming. I was very very wrong. Wells should be ashamed of himself and so should Marvel Comics overall.

[exile001]

All that just to lead up to this?????????!!!!!!!!!!! I am missing something right????????? Wow this was bad. Like really bad. All of the lead up and we get this. I am pretty upset as most of you here. I have been reading Spidey for 41 years. I will keep reading Spidey and will never stop but this...after the Beyond thing I thought something big was coming. I was very very wrong. Wells should be ashamed of himself and so should Marvel Comics overall.

Including Beyond, Wells has had well over 30 issues of ASM to cushion the blow of the biggest, most emotional and sense shattering issue since Gwen died was always going to be a complete dud. By the quality of his run to date he totally delivered. Lol.

[Xenon]

I’m a very patient and positive person. It takes a lot to rile me up.

I can safely say I think the current comic is absolutely in the ballpark of Sins Past, OMD, and Avengers #200 as a truly bad story we will point to as a low point for years to come.

Like...same. I'm very easy to please. I kept on buying this run despite Paul being with Mary Jane because I was expecting that I would get a dumb but acceptable answer for why and then I could get whatever enjoyment out of the Spider-Man half that i could. As much as I hated OMD I think BND is mostly good and I praise it for the things it does well (which...just don't have anything to do with Spider-Man being single). I really can compromise and take enjoyment out of their mediocrity. But this is just beyond the pale. I have been hesistant to utter these words but it really does feel like a new Sins Past. And i'm depressed today as I realize it's gonna be MONTHS, at least, before it gets fixed. That's just depressing. I'm just out on the comics for a while, and that's sad. i thought I was going to get it back. I will pray for corrective action.

They screwed up MJ & Peter's relationship... again
They made MJ horrible to read about... again
They tried, and failed, to make Jackpot a thing... again
They killed off a popular character that we know will appear again because movies... again
They're trying to pass of Kamala's passing like it was Captain America

Yeah, it's been a long time that I actually bothered to actually read ASM as we're now in the, what... 6th?, reboot/new volume of the series.
I've been collecting since Volume 1 in the 1990s, and to be honest, all I do with the ASM series is bag/board it and add it into the collection. These books haven't been interesting since they brought Peter back to his brain/body after the first run of Superior Spider-Man.

Consider dropping it from your list for a while. I understand you probably have a pretty substantial collection at this point, and this is a hard thing to consider, but they're overprinting every issue due to variant spam. These issues WILL be cheaper in a year than they are today when the next guy comes in and pulls a Spencer to negate it all. Instead of buying it today for cover price, tell Marvel no, then once they do better you can pick it up as a back issue to keep your collection complete.

Wait till they' get to Felicia. You'll wish she was never is asm again. it will be glorious and an awful read

Considering his track record maybe this will be why 32 is the "darkest run yet"

All that just to lead up to this?????????!!!!!!!!!!! I am missing something right????????? Wow this was bad. Like really bad. All of the lead up and we get this. I am pretty upset as most of you here. I have been reading Spidey for 41 years. I will keep reading Spidey and will never stop but this...after the Beyond thing I thought something big was coming. I was very very wrong. Wells should be ashamed of himself and so should Marvel Comics overall.

You didn't miss anything, Wells just did a bad job and doesn't know how to write Mary Jane. Or mystery boxes, apparently. AS above, i'll encourage you to drop the book for a while. 41 years is a long time, I wouldn't expect you to give it up. But just....pause it for a while. Back the issues in like four months. I know if your shop is anything like mine they have piles of the issues every time. You can save money and tell marvel to shove it.

[lefthanded]

Kamala Khan's creators and formative writers and artists are participating in this storyline. I don't think they would participate in this storyline if they thought it was racist.

Sure, she isn't being sacrificed strictly because of her race, and the storytellers intents could be pure. In a book where they want a bunch of red herrings as to who dies, she does fit the bill as someone who would do a heroic sacrifice. And frankly, there was no reason to include her in a Spider-man book at all, if they weren't gonna give her a 'big heroic moment'. For example, if you had T'challa show up interning at Stark Industries when it was undercontrol of Hammer industries, you already know that there is a reason for that beyond just keeping an eye on Hammer.

But .... it is not just the optics of it all, but how it keeps happening again and again. Horror movies where "the black person dies first" is a hoary trope that on an individual level may not be racist, but when it keeps happening again and again, it is racist.

The English language doesn't have a word to better capture the various shades of racism, but yes, it is still racist. It is just not explicitly racist, it is like a microaggression type of racism. At the very least, it seems like implicit bias in effect.

As an aside: Creators and artists participating doesn't really much if they either are only looking at it on the storylevel (yes it makes sense in terms of this bad storyline), or if they had no real power (could they have blocked it from happening if they wanted to keep their jobs?)

[MaydayStan]

You didn't miss anything, Wells just did a bad job and doesn't know how to write Mary Jane. Or mystery boxes, apparently. AS above, i'll encourage you to drop the book for a while. 41 years is a long time, I wouldn't expect you to give it up. But just....pause it for a while. Back the issues in like four months. I know if your shop is anything like mine they have piles of the issues every time. You can save money and tell marvel to shove it.

This. No-one in the world is going to be hungering for back issues of this trash run when it's over, hell, even now while it's still going on. You'll find them in the bargain bin before the end of the year.

[Brian B]

Well, he didn't kill the world lol. And let's be f***n real for a sec. This is the same world Tony Stark is still considered a hero. And scarlet witch. He's way down on the list of regrettable acts. Spidey still hangs out with those guys so.

Marvel did Tony and Wanda dirty, too, especially Wanda. I don’t think it’s a good critique to say that because Marvel editorial teams in the past made bad story decisions, this bad story from current Marvel editorial is okay.

[Lee]

Sure, she isn't being sacrificed strictly because of her race, and the storytellers intents could be pure. In a book where they want a bunch of red herrings as to who dies, she does fit the bill as someone who would do a heroic sacrifice. And frankly, there was no reason to include her in a Spider-man book at all, if they weren't gonna give her a 'big heroic moment'. For example, if you had T'challa show up interning at Stark Industries when it was undercontrol of Hammer industries, you already know that there is a reason for that beyond just keeping an eye on Hammer.

But .... it is not just the optics of it all, but how it keeps happening again and again. Horror movies where "the black person dies first" is a hoary trope that on an individual level may not be racist, but when it keeps happening again and again, it is racist.

The English language doesn't have a word to better capture the various shades of racism, but yes, it is still racist. It is just not explicitly racist, it is like a microaggression type of racism. At the very least, it seems like implicit bias in effect.

As an aside: Creators and artists participating doesn't really much if they either are only looking at it on the storylevel (yes it makes sense in terms of this bad storyline), or if they had no real power (could they have blocked it from happening if they wanted to keep their jobs?)

The creators don't have the power to veto. But they do have the power to say "no" to a gig they find offensive. All of Kamala Khan's formative writers and artists have chosen to participate in this Death of Ms. Marvel storyline.

A teenage Pakistani-American Muslim girl heroically sacrificing her life to save the world, then being reborn more powerful than ever isn't a cliche.

Getting rid of one of their few Pakistani-American super-heroes, one of their few Muslim super-heroes, would be a bad move. But that's obviously not what they're doing. They're preparing to give Ms. Marvel a big relaunch in a few months. They didn't even cancel her comic to do it, because she didn't have a comic to cancel. The direct market audience had drifted away from the series and taken the character for granted.

[Frontier]

I sometimes wonder what people's reactions would have been if Paul was Eddie Brock instead and the same thing happened.

I mean, asking us to buy into her falling for a man she's even less likely to fall for...

She found enough reason to move on, and made the choice to do so. That's what MJ did do.

But I think the issue with a lot of people is that it wasn't portrayed convincingly or well. Which is on Wells or this forced storyline.

Kamala Khan's creators and formative writers and artists are participating in this storyline. I don't think they would participate in this storyline if they thought it was racist.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time actual creators more associated with a character would have to salvage a mess made with their character afterwards. They're like the only ones you can trust with said characters.

The creators don't have the power to veto. But they do have the power to say "no" to a gig they find offensive. All of Kamala Khan's formative writers and artists have chosen to participate in this Death of Ms. Marvel storyline.

A teenage Pakistani-American Muslim girl heroically sacrificing her life to save the world, then being reborn more powerful than ever isn't a cliche.

Getting rid of one of their few Pakistani-American super-heroes, one of their few Muslim super-heroes, would be a bad move. But that's obviously not what they're doing. They're preparing to give Ms. Marvel a big relaunch in a few months. They didn't even cancel her comic to do it, because she didn't have a comic to cancel. The direct market audience had drifted away from the series and taken the character for granted.

Even if they're bringing her back that doesn't mean the way they killed her off, marketed her death, and the entire reason why they're killing her off in the first place any less problematic and I don't believe the fact that she didn't have her own comic justifies her use here.

They could've just relaunched her comic and that would be the end of it.

[Rift]

Bet you guys wish Hellion was in this run now. It wouldn't be problematic, misogynist or racist if he disguised himself as MJ and died in her place. And considering he actually has more of a history with Peter, his death would be more impactful AND give him some nice character development.

[Frontier]

What great use and build up for Kamala:

[Lee]

Even if they're bringing her back that doesn't mean the way they killed her off, marketed her death, and the entire reason why they're killing her off in the first place any less problematic and I don't believe the fact that she didn't have her own comic justifies her use here.

They could've just relaunched her comic and that would be the end of it.

A death and return gets more attention than a new issue #1 alone.

People were taking Ms. Marvel for granted. They weren't buying her comics. Now everyone's talking about Ms. Marvel.

All of Marvel and DC's premier characters have had much hyped death and return stories. It's always a sales draw. It's become a staple of super-hero storytelling, and I see no reason it should be reserved for white characters only.

[marvelprince]

People like what they like, and that's good, i'd rather like something than it make me feel bad, though of course personally this perspective is frustrating. I just don't get how someone well-read on past Spider-Man comics can think this is acceptable characterization. I don't mean that as an insult, I just am frustrated at the book and get confused by the response to something i see as so obviously terrible.
.

It’s no insult. I just go with the ride. Peter will continually go through this cycle of rebuilding and deconstruction in order to get drama. It’s going to be hit or miss how much that appeals to you, but raging against changes and things that I know won’t last isn’t my style. I know lots of people are up in arms about the characterization, but I don’t see how its off. I don’t even really see how this story is all that different from others that have reset Peter’s relationship with his friends and family except that this time they have showed MJ moving on and that feels like a betrayal i guess.

I like MJ, I’m glad she’s in the book and I’ll be interested in seeing how her and Peter get back together but till then I’m excited to see a serious Peter and Felicia relationship (or as serious as that relationship can get). I love Zeb Wells writing, even things I thought I would hate I ended up liking (“good” Norman, Beyond Arc with evil Ben, etc) in particular his humor (I thought he was the best of the BND era personally). If he puts Peter in a black costume now too I might buy him a fruit basket.

But again its all subjective, lots and lots don’t feel how I feel and that’s fine. But I survived Sin’s Past, I can survive anything (and I don’t think anything that happens in this story comes close to ruining a character like hooking Gwen up with Norman). For some reason people think this ruins MJ? I don’t see it. She’s a woman, not a nun. I don’t get this narrative that she cheated or should have remained chaste while running and trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world. She should find the peace she can, and think the book did a good job of showing that it was not an easy or quick thing for her, she still struggles with it and doesn’t take pride in hurting Peter. I like it.

[The Twilight Mexican]

Paul left two fake children to fake die. He was right. He wss suspicious, and he was right to be suspicious.

He wasn't suspicious, though? You've said this several times, but his actual comments about the kids to Mary Jane were:

- "They've seen things. Both of them." (Remarks indicating that he believes them to be real and traumatized)

- "There's no telling what they ran into out here." (Same as previous)

- "Mary Jane...our plan isn't set up to care for two children. It makes everything harder. Hiding. Food. We have to be realistic--" (Then she interrupts him to say that she won't leave them, but he can go on his own if he wants to)

It's left unclear where precisely Paul was going with that last comment, but their situation was rather obvious to us as the readers, so it certainly should have been obvious to Mary Jane herself, who was in the situation ... so if Paul wasn't working up to suggesting they leave the kids behind after a week of caring for them ... it's a very bizarre and unnecessary line of thought he was giving voice to.

Saying "We have to be realistic," though, clearly indicates he was about to make some suggestion to address the problem he had just laid out in his previous sentences. That problem being: "our plan isn't set up to care for two children. It makes everything harder."

Mary Jane certainly understood his upcoming suggestion to be about leaving the kids. He denies that and says he would have never suggested that. After a moment of pondering, she says she knows he wouldn't. We're of course left with little choice but to trust Mary Jane's insight ... but we're also left with little choice but to ponder the obvious implication that he was going to suggest that very thing ... because there's no other reason for him to have been saying what he was saying.

Again, she already knows their situation after more than seven months of living in it. And again, he has laid out a problem, then proceeded to say "We need to be realistic" about it. So a suggestion of some solution to that problem ... is the only sensibie comment that could be coming next.

One's mileage may vary about how we should assess Paul's character for this, but let's definitely keep ourselves grounded on what the actual details under analysis are. Of course, we're also left with Peter and Mary Jane both being written as absolute asshats during this run, so the quality of their character isn't much elevated from the implications about Paul's.

[Xenon]

Marvel did Tony and Wanda dirty, too, especially Wanda. I don’t think it’s a good critique to say that because Marvel editorial teams in the past made bad story decisions, this bad story from current Marvel editorial is okay.

So much this. I've never understood pointing to bad stories as justification for further bad stories. Like "The Room" doesn't excuse the Fantastic Four reboot movie. Bad things hould be pointed t as things to avoid, not reasons its ok.

It’s no insult. I just go with the ride. Peter will continually go through this cycle of rebuilding and deconstruction in order to get drama. It’s going to be hit or miss how much that appeals to you, but raging against changes and things that I know won’t last isn’t my style. I know lots of people are up in arms about the characterization, but I don’t see how its off. I don’t even really see how this story is all that different from others that have reset Peter’s relationship with his friends and family except that this time they have showed MJ moving on and that feels like a betrayal i guess.

I like MJ, I’m glad she’s in the book and I’ll be interested in seeing how her and Peter get back together but till then I’m excited to see a serious Peter and Felicia relationship (or as serious as that relationship can get). I love Zeb Wells writing, even things I thought I would hate I ended up liking (“good” Norman, Beyond Arc with evil Ben, etc) in particular his humor (I thought he was the best of the BND era personally). If he puts Peter in a black costume now too I might buy him a fruit basket.

But again its all subjective, lots and lots don’t feel how I feel and that’s fine. But I survived Sin’s Past, I can survive anything (and I don’t think anything that happens in this story comes close to ruining a character like hooking Gwen up with Norman). For some reason people think this ruins MJ? I don’t see it. She’s a woman, not a nun. I don’t get this narrative that she cheated or should have remained chaste while running and trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world. She should find the peace she can, and think the book did a good job of showing that it was not an easy or quick thing for her, she still struggles with it and doesn’t take pride in hurting Peter. I like it.

I don't think this is as bad as Sins Past was when canon, but for me it's pretty close. It just doesn't respect what MJ has been shown to be life (stubborn, determined or want in her life. And I think becuase of the way she treats Peter (completley heartlessly) and how they were in a relationship when they went into that dimension, it feels like a total betrayal from her to me. I'v eposted hundreds of times in this thread obvious I've said it numerous ways, but ultimately that's what it comes down to for me. It's not about her being a nun, that's too extreme. And again it's liek a double layered betrayal. If she had just had sex with PAul while they were in that dimension but came back to Peter when she was rescued you could almost make me ok with that. I still don't think she would do it, but it's closer. It's this combination of cheating and leaving that makes it really reach the Sins Past tier of bad to me (which also featured a woman in love with PEter just ignoring that she was in love with Peter to sleep with another man).

That said, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and I definitely understand the just letting it all roll off you. That's probably smarter. I let myself get too invested in these things.