ASM #26 Preview

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I'm done. Not just with ASM but Disney in general.

This whole run has been offensively bad and I refuse to give Disney another cent after allowing my favourite version of my favourite character to be ruined like this under their watch. I won't be buying anymore comics from them, I won't be seeing anymore movies they put out in theaters and I will be canceling Disney Plus when I get home since apparently that's what their shareholders care about. Any trades I still need to fill in back issues will only be bought second hand and if there is something they put out that I want to watch I will find another way. Across the Spiderverse is fine since that's a Sony product.

Screw them for what they've allowed ASM to become under their watch. It's disgusting and they've lost a customer.

[Toonstrack]

What agency did MJ have in this run? She had been reduced to an object that Peter is sad he can't have.

Agency is choice. She chose Paul. She chose to send Peter home instead of going herself which caused all of this. Her situation is entirely comprised of her own choice.

You are removing her choice and attributing her actions to the writer, a common thing that happens when female characters make choices a reader finds questionable.

[Toonstrack]

Are you familiar with the concept of stockholm syndrome? Because that is what this is. That is what has been presented to us, the audience. It's not about giving MJ agency. It's about depicting her as an object that Peter is sad he can't have. We never get into her head. It's all about Peter and his sadness that he can't have the object that he wants.

Stockholm syndrome doesn't apply when a character has made a sacrifice of their own volition that resulted in them being trapped.

MJ CHOSE to be trapped there lmfao. She could have gone back and didn't because she knew spidey was more important to the world. She made a self sacrifice and you are taking that away from her and removing her agency.

[Toonstrack]

I'm done. Not just with ASM but Disney in general.

This whole run has been offensively bad and I refuse to give Disney another cent after allowing my favourite version of my favourite character to be ruined like this under their watch. I won't be buying anymore comics from them, I won't be seeing anymore movies they put out in theaters and I will be canceling Disney Plus when I get home since apparently that's what their shareholders care about. Any trades I still need to fill in back issues will only be bought second hand and if there is something they put out that I want to watch I will find another way. Across the Spiderverse is fine since that's a Sony product.

Screw them for what they've allowed ASM to become under their watch. It's disgusting and they've lost a customer.

My guy Disney has nothing to do with this. Nick lowe has been at marvel since way before the Disney buyout.

[Xenon]

The difference is one gave agency to the character. The other had her get brainwashed and then raped.

Pretty significant difference. Downplaying that is... not great.

Carol isn't brainwashed as Avengers 200 was printed, that was a retcon. As printed they're the same. And the idea that MJ had any agency at all in this story is ridiculous. If she had agency she would have gotten to pursue what she wanted, which was the man she loved and a way home. Instead she just sits around and forgets him.

MJ has never considered Peter her only option in any media. Hell in the rami trilogy which everyone considered the best rendition of spidey she striaght up cheats lol

Now she's some ride or die girl with no other options? What MJ have yall been reading?

i mean there's literally hundreds of issues where she's ride or die for Peter. A great example would be Sensational Spider-Man #1, when they're on the run from teh law during civil war and Peter tries to get her to leave him. The version of the character you're citing doesn't love anyone and also doesn't exist.

[Frontier]

Agency is choice. She chose Paul. She chose to send Peter home instead of going herself which caused all of this. Her situation is entirely comprised of her own choice.

You are removing her choice and attributing her actions to the writer, a common thing that happens when female characters make choices a reader finds questionable.

They're not even explicit that she chose Paul because of the weird situation with the kids that ended up being pointless.

It's just not written all that well or to a point where she comes off as in-character, which is where people have problems

[Xenon]

Stockholm syndrome doesn't apply when a character has made a sacrifice of their own volition that resulted in them being trapped.

MJ CHOSE to be trapped there lmfao. She could have gone back and didn't because she knew spidey was more important to the world. She made a self sacrifice and you are taking that away from her and removing her agency.

She chose to send Pete back, she didn't choose to be trapped. She wanted to be rescued and go home to Peter....until she just gave up for no reason.

[Garlador]

Stockholm syndrome doesn't apply when a character has made a sacrifice of their own volition that resulted in them being trapped.

MJ CHOSE to be trapped there lmfao. She could have gone back and didn't because she knew spidey was more important to the world. She made a self sacrifice and you are taking that away from her and removing her agency.

Oof. Buddy. That is not how Stockholm Syndrome works. Plenty of victims are put in their position through bad choices they make to get there.

That doesn’t even touch on Complex PTSD and Survival Codependency Trauma. I’d be happy to flex my psychology knowledge here. Mary Jane seriously needs a therapist.

[Xenon]

Agency is choice. She chose Paul. She chose to send Peter home instead of going herself which caused all of this. Her situation is entirely comprised of her own choice.

You are removing her choice and attributing her actions to the writer, a common thing that happens when female characters make choices a reader finds questionable.

AGency is respecting the character's desires and personality. It's not making them choose something to make your plot work. That's why we attribute them to the writer, because the choices aren't consistent with the person who came before.

[Toonstrack]

Another thing I forgot. Like it's a minor thing, but why isn't Peter shocked by that part? He just knows how they work and doesn't think anything of it? Like it's a major weapon in their arsenal if he knows about it but just...nothing? Cmon.



I wish I read the book you did. Do the kids having no purpose not bother you? Them winning by basically luck? MJ again being heartless to Peter means nothing? I just don't get it.



Yeah and it meant nothing. Rabin teleported away and Peter contributed nothing to the solution.



It's not purity its faithfulness. And again, these takes seem slightly misogynistic as they're all about Peter, but that's misguided thinking and not treating Mary Jane with her own agency. Mary Jane is in love with Peter when she is thrown into that dimension. When you're in love with someone you want to see them, you want to be with them. Other people become less appealing (I mean, not entirely, obviously). I do think she owed a duty to Peter based on their relationship status, but also she has a duty to herself and what she wants. And what she wants was Peter Parker. Why did that go away? Why would she not care about hurting someone she loves? It just makes her a bad person. And again, even if there wasn't faithfulness, there should still be love. Choosing them over Peter should have been heartbreaking for her, but she doesn't act like she cares at all. Anyone who's just like "eh, time passed" is ignoring her agency in the situation and what her character would want. That's a huge problem.

MJ hasn't been heartless to Peter. Shes been quite gracious wth him considering the things he's pulled on her and Paul. Bursting into their home, attacking him without cause, etc. You are forgiving Peter for all of those things and villifying MJ when she's been cordial with him more than he deserved. His feelings are understandable but hes the one in the wrong here.

MJ didn't just want Peter anymore. She had other things to consider in his absence, which was for FOUR YEARS, and she made a different dhoice. She did nothing wrong. You're trying to take away her aspect of choice and lock her in to one destiny and one fate. Thats not how characters work in general and that's not how MJ has EVER worked. She has never considered Peter and no one else, she has always beena. Free spirit and has had various other loves other than Peter. Peter has always been punching above his weight with her, and she loved him but there were other things going on that changed her priorities. That is totally ok especially giving the time frame.

[jwatson]

she came off in character to me. Show me the man that is going to wait four years to move on trapped in a hell like dimension with two kids and a beautiful woman to protect(the reverse of the MJ situation since paul is drawn to be good looking). i mean let's just be real here. We know Peter wouldn't wait four years in that situation.

[Kevinroc]

Agency is choice. She chose Paul. She chose to send Peter home instead of going herself which caused all of this. Her situation is entirely comprised of her own choice.

You are removing her choice and attributing her actions to the writer, a common thing that happens when female characters make choices a reader finds questionable.

The writer wanted a status quo shift from what he inherited and failed in executing it in a satisfying manner.

A writer can sell people on tragedy. A writer can also fail on selling tragedy.

MJ just gives up on Peter despite decades of being characterized as being stubborn in her faith in Peter. We, as an audience, are supposed to believe in this massive character shift because of a montage? As the South Park guys said in song, "even Rocky had a montage."

Why did she give up on Peter? Because the writer needed her to give up on Peter. So, no, she did not have agency in this story. She was reduced to an object to make Peter sad. The writer just didn't care. The editor didn't care. And we have seen many examples of the writer and editor just not caring. How are we, as an audience, supposed to buy into how tragic this all is when the people making it just don't care?

[Toonstrack]

AGency is respecting the character's desires and personality. It's not making them choose something to make your plot work. That's why we attribute them to the writer, because the choices aren't consistent with the person who came before.

Yes they are. MJ would allow herself be trapped knowing how important Peter is to the world. Shed sent him first. That was a selfless act, and consistent with her character.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

My guy Disney has nothing to do with this. Nick lowe has been at marvel since way before the Disney buyout.

Disney owns Marvel so the buck stops with them. They also don't really seem to care about the state of the comics beyond using them as an IP farm so I'd argue that their neglect and apathy has seemingly had an impact.

Besides, maybe if enough of us hit them where they actually care about (their streaming service) they'll actually take notice.

[Toonstrack]

Oof. Buddy. That is not how Stockholm Syndrome works. Plenty of victims are put in their position through bad choices they make to get there.

That doesn’t even touch on Complex PTSD and Survival Codependency Trauma. I’d be happy to flex my psychology knowledge here. Mary Jane seriously needs a therapist.

MJ didn't make a bad choice. She made a difficult one. But she made the right one.