ASM #26 Preview

[Nightwing96]

They've got a lot more content they can go and enjoy if the current run is too much for them to handle.

616 Peter and Mary Jane even AFTER OMD was continuously on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and given just enough daylight to where it was played around with as being on and off, with Mary Jane not wanting the drama of being with Spider-Man, then going back on it, then not feeling like she has a place in Peter's life and then going back on it, and then being semi-quasi back together, but not really, and then being about to move in together which also became 'but not really'. But regardless they've had TONS and I mean TONS of MJ x Peter content post OMD to go off of if they really wanted to look at it.

This is THE FIRST time in the main comics actually for a 6-8 month span that Peter and Mary Jane haven't been together with Mary Jane being with someone else that wasn't Peter. 6-8 months out of 40+ years which included 20+ years of marriage yet you've got people acting like their entire world is falling apart.

It ain't that deep, it ain't that serious. And if it's really too much for them to handle, despite all the current content that exists for their ship then they can stop reading the run or Spider-Man in general till they get what they want. Or they can take a step back. Because even in the new Spider-Verse movie they got Mary Jane, Peter AND Mayday. They've got TONS of mainstream things both from the past 40 years and ongoing in platforms that many more eyes are going to be on to enjoy their Peter x Mary Jane fix.

I get their ship not happening for a 6-8 month span but some are treating it like some kind of dynastic stuff that renders them unable to enjoy other things to their fullest extent, along with the constant venom and vitriol they spew. It's worse than and even akin to the Nightwing Comic when they put Nightwing and Barbara together. I personally hate the ship of Nightwing and Barbara for several reasons, but when it happened in the comic, I just decided I wasn't going to follow it as it would just upset me, and I check in every now and then and occasionally there's an entertaining story to be told and I'll get that. But I'm not actively following something I know is going to upset me. That plus the fact 90% of the mainstream Nightwing/Dick Grayson Robin appearances have him paired with Starfire instead. So if I wanted that I'd have that to go back to. But I don't act like Teen Titans suddenly doesn't matter as much to me because Dick is with Barbara in the comics right now. I don't go watch the DC Animated films where Nightwing and Starfire move in together and start getting more serious and go "Yeah but he's with Barbara in the comics now so this just feels secondary." Because it's not that serious. I have TONS of Teen Titans, comic book lore with Dick and Starfire to go off of if I wanted to see them together and I'm fine with new story ideas being explored regardless of whether it's my ship or not. And when it's my ship I'll enjoy it however long it lasts because in comics, nothing lasts forever. They are soap operas intentionally for that reason.

So if people(particularly grown people) REALLY feel like they can't enjoy any of the TONS of media currently going on with Peter and MJ just because he hasn't been with MJ in the comics for 6-8 months, then I really think it's time to take a step back and breathe. Because it's getting way too serious if it's at that point for some. There's tons of Mary Jane x Peter stuff out there, both in the past, and ongoing. Drop the current run, and go read that, go watch that, go play that. Go do whatever it is they have to do. But don't take it so seriously that their enjoyment of Spider-Man as a whole across ALL platforms, is based upon whether they're "together or not" in the comics.

40+ years of Mary Jane and Peter, 20 years of marriage, 15 years post OMD where they were best friends or quasi-dating, and some can't handle 6-8 months of Mary Jane being with someone else?
Take a step back, and breath. It's going to be okay. Really. It's comics, the least watched platform and the one where nothing lasts forever, no matter how good or bad it is.

I just wanted to add my thoughts to what you said about the 616 Peter and Mary Jane relationship. You are correct that after One More Day their relationship has always been depicted as on and off, where we (the audience) are teased of their history and importance but for one reason or another the relationship would never grow to fruition. There were moments during Dan Slott's run where we could see that MJ had strong feelings for Peter (ex. Spider Island where she says she loves him, her confirming her feelings for him right before the start of Superior Spider-Man, and even their almost hook up during the time she worked for Tony Stark) but a relationship never materialized for all the reasons you stated (the back and forth of not wanting to be in involved in Spider-Man drama, even her own insecurities of her importance in Peter's life, etc.). I was thinking why many fans like myself feel incredibly burned at Peter and MJ's current break up even though I'm sure that in the next 2-5 years they will be put back together. In my opinion, I believe fans are frustrated due to where the relationship was right before the break up. Peter and MJ were ready to take their relationship to the next level and move in together. It signified how strong the relationship was and where these two lovers were headed (which would arugably bring them as close as possible to pre OMD status minus being married). But then suddenly the rug was pulled and without an explanation for over a year we see them farther apart than ever before. It seemed like all their progress was undone. It might be comparable to compare this regression of their relationship to how fans felt right after OMD seeing these two as anything but lovers which they were for many years felt extremely off and almost seemed to erase everything that happened between them up to that point.

On top of that, Paul has really only been used as a plot device to force the separation (along with the kids) and taking 26 issues to give back story makes it hard to feel any emotion towards the character. New characters are always introduced in comics and defined by their relationships to the main character of said comic. As Paul is introduced as an obstacle preventing Peter from being happy with MJ, its natural that fans of the book who support Peter will naturally detest Paul due to the change in the status quo that was established in the previous run (that being Peter and MJ being together). I also feel that despite the vagueness of their relationship (no explicit intimacy is ever displayed between MJ and Paul) this is the longest any of her external relationships has gone on and the first that has ever really been given a large degree of focus in the main story (her previous relationship with the actor whose name I can't remember and Pedro were both short lived and only given minimal focus). I agree in the grand scheme of things this will end up being a small blip and eventually Peter and MJ will be reunited but I think in the present, this is why many fans feel upset. For now I am going to look at other avenues for Peter and MJ like the new Spider-verse movie and upcoming Spider-Man game in the fall and just wait this out. Given how much Marvel markets Peter and MJ together outside of comics we know its only a matter of time before they get together but I sincerely hope we don't wait almost another decade for them to get back together in the main 616 universe. Who knows, maybe Zeb will actually dive into Peter and MJ in the latter half of his run but idk if he will.

Lastly I just wanted to say I am also a huge Dickkory fan but surprisingly I do like how Tom Taylor has written Dick and Barbara together. But as Nite-Mite (Nightwing's imp) said, I will always prefer Starfire.

[Jwyatt]

I'll stick with Felicia solo stories, or the team up with Mary Jane. I don't expect much, or anything good, out of ASM writers anymore.



Yeah, that's going to be a no on that one. I'm OCD about my collection these days, and I dropped ASM once before and it cost me a fortune to get those issues later on to fill the gaps. Easier to just buy them and archive them. Considering I don't buy many books anymore via Marvel or DC, I've already made my statement. Going from spending $200+ a month on comics to less than $20 a month is my statement.

I was able to stop warrying about being a completist. I finally realized that it's a waste to buy things I don't like, especially if I intend to never look at them.

[Kevinroc]

https://www.themarysue.com/absolutel...l-kamala-khan/

Another article calling out this issue for its racism and misogyny.

[Spider-Tiger]

https://www.themarysue.com/absolutel...l-kamala-khan/

Another article calling out this issue for its racism and misogyny.

if-three-people-tell-you-that-you-are-drunk-you-better-lie-down.jpg

This felt appropriate. But anyway, I agree with the points made in this article.

I'll add that I don't think Wells or Lowe necessarily had an any explicit malice or negative intentions in doing this. But I do think this signals that more diversity of experience and opinion is needed in the offices of what is essentially Marvel's mascot IP.

[CaptainUniverse]

https://www.themarysue.com/absolutel...l-kamala-khan/

Another article calling out this issue for its racism and misogyny.

How many articles does that make? Quite a few now, right? And Marvel remains silent all the while. Hmm...

[Kevinroc]

How many articles does that make? Quite a few now, right? And Marvel remains silent all the while. Hmm...

I wonder if they think just announcing the inevitable Return of Ms. Marvel comic is going to make this controversy go away? Because every article I have read has acknowledged that they expect Kamala back sooner rather than later, and that it still wouldn't erase the problems with her death.

[Majesty]

The return of Ms Marvel starts at the end of the Ms Marvel comic that's coming out in about a month.

[Kevinroc]

The return of Ms Marvel starts at the end of the Ms Marvel comic that's coming out in about a month.

And as these articles point out, it doesn't change that the death of Kamala Khan is rooted in misogyny and racism.

[Garlador]

https://www.themarysue.com/absolutel...l-kamala-khan/

Another article calling out this issue for its racism and misogyny.

I’ve been cataloging everything to send to Marvel offices. I haven’t yet because they just KEEP COMING.

[Huntsman Spider]

https://www.themarysue.com/absolutel...l-kamala-khan/

Another article calling out this issue for its racism and misogyny.

Especially at the end, where it mentions the few people who are happy about this at all are the kind of s***heads who give superhero comics fandom (on top of sci-fi/fantasy genre fandom in general) a terrible, terrible name and for whom racism and misogyny (not to mention homophobia, transphobia, all-around xenophobia) might as well be the driving principle.

[Xenon]

I said this over tin the movie thread, but I must also say it here, Across the Spider-verse made me more angry about the comic than I thought it would, and not for the reasons I thought it would. No spoilers, don't worry about that.

I thought seeing Peter back in his marriage would annoy me given the current status quo. But it didn't. I just enjoyed that part. No, it was the other parts of the movie where they just followed the individual characters. Because they were so good. They had great action, great atmosphere, and a great story. They were just awesome to watch. And part of that was with a character I wasn't even super hot on before the movie. But it was just good Spider-Man. And then I think about what the comic is putting out with the villain dying because he killed the wrong girl and he somehow didn't know that despite all his mystic powers and I'm just like....really Marvel? This is the best you can do? This is the guy you've got writing Spider-Man for at least the next year? This dumpster fire of a run that's no fun, out of character, purposely designed to hurt the readers to the point you have to plead with people in your first letters page that you've got a plan (they did not have a plan, lulz). That's all you got? Is there just no accountability? Do they just not care? Is it just 'well we're squeezing our whales for the variant money so it's ok" over there? Do you have no pride in your work? Like I just don't get it. Obviously, no opinion is universal, and some people are enjoying this run. I also worry about echo chambers. But like I didn't like the Slott run at all but I saw plenty of people who did enjoy parts of it (Superior especially). I'm usually pretty good about ralizing when I'm in the minority opinion. I just don't feel it here. Here it feels like everyone hates this run. Before the last arc it felt like a contained simmer People were waiting for the pay off. There was some frustration when that Avengers comic came out and Peter kicked their butts, but that was the biggest ourroar before.Now it's boiled over and people are done. It FEELS like everyone hates it. I just don't understand how that can't affect them. I don't understand how that doesn't inspire them to change or say something or I dunno, do something different. It's just hard for me to believe on all levels. That Zeb Wells wrote it and thought "yeah that's good" and Lowe read it and thought "yeah that's good" and Cebulski read it and was like "yeah that's good" (to be fair maybe Cebulski doesn't read every issue that early). Is a year of this not good enough? I had my issues with Across the Spider-verse, but it was GOOD (and I don't even like the Spider-Verse concept). The Spider-Man 2 video game will almost certainly be amazing as well. But no, we're just gonna let Wells cook for another 25 issues. It's just....sad.

My point was a couple one of which is Progress based story telling is neither better or worse than other modes, just different. But also someone trying to read old Spider-Man issues through the lens of "this is one story of Peter Parker" are going to be disappointed, because they were not telling, at least by the later 70s, a single story of Peter Parker, they told a whole bunch of small stories that Peter Parker could enter, help resolve and then move on to another story. But if you're looking for progress, all you'll see is filler. Which is sort of like looking at a forest and complaining its not an ocean.

But also THAT IS A HUGE ASS BACKLOG.

People feel One Piece is intimidating and its only got 26 years on its belt. And this isn't even touching on someone like Batman who on top of multiple solo books has a bunch of team up books, so just "read all of his stuff from the very start" is an AWFUL entry point.

I get you, are one of those who really likes progress oriented sterilized story telling, but are perhaps able to enjoy the periods when Superheroes were very much not that, by maybe hoping they will become that and all the older stuff can be sort of seen as steps of progress no matter how tiny. But to try and use those periods to lure in others looking for progress oriented story telling is... kind of a bad idea. And "Here's an issue form the 60 now start reading to catch up to us 61 years later!" is not an an actual strategy for getting new readers.

I understand that those kind of backlogs can be intimidating, and it might be worth it to put a product out for those kinds of people. They've done it in the past with things like Marvel Adventures Spider-Man. Then when people are willing to graduate they have a ton of content to get through.

I also think it's worht pointing out that other titles have not been quite as good at telling the long story as Spider-Man was pre-OMD. Lot more universal resets and such for soem characters.

Correct. People felt cheated that Joe Quesada, well ... cheated ... to get the IP to his desired status quo. It was just magically shifted there via Game Genie cheat codes without working to get there in any fashion that a reader could imagine relating to even as the stated justification for all of this was constantly "This is about making the IP more relatable to you again, readers!"

Well, to the shock of no one with a foot in the real world, it wasn't relatable for the readers at all that their role model and personal hero (since childhood, for many) would unleash The Devil (capital "T," capital "D") on his friends, family, and potentially on the world at large just so he could say "Because then it wouldn't be my fault" (direct quote) about a bystander getting hit by a bullet meant for him.

Bad guys do bad **** to innocent people all the time, often while gunning for the good guys. Readers expected their hero to man up and take some responsibility, as they had to do throughout their own lives -- and they especially expected it of this hero. The one who "With great power comes great responsibility" was coined for.

... It also probably didn't help the relatability that Pete would sacrifice his supermodel wife for an almost literally fossilized relative who even he acknowledged could believably keel over from natural causes at any time.

Sorry, but no one would do that, and no one would have thought it was heroic even if it didn't involve handing The Devil (again, it's The Effing Devil) a blank check to alter countless other peoples' lives. It wasn't relatable, inspiring, or heroic. It was just stupid.

Cheating executed with stupid. That's what it began as, and that's what everything in the entire IP since then feels like it's a product of -- but especially the relationship with the other character who was written to be involved in making that decision. And the IP will continue to feel like it's a product of that stupid hacking until the two once-beloved characters who were pigeonholed into doing the stupid are shown on the written-and-drawn page saying "That sure was stupid."

They don't even need to get back together. They just need to acknowledge it was stupid. It might even be better if they say "We probably shouldn't get back together if we would do something that stupid." But damn, do they need to admit they were stupid AF.

I do disagee with the last line at this point. Peter didn't have to get married in 1987, but he did, and he should get that part back. It's progress for the character, it opens up more avenues for storytelling, and it's a natural part of life. Especially as people go into their 30s these days (as opposed to in 1987 when they got married in their early 20s, haha). It expands his world and we have plenty of Spider-Man that's young and single. And if we need more...they can just publish baack continuity stuff. They still do that now.

The return of Ms Marvel starts at the end of the Ms Marvel comic that's coming out in about a month.

That only make the stupid death even worse on a certain level, because it just feels pointless. Really poorly executed.

[Digifiend]

The return of Ms Marvel starts at the end of the Ms Marvel comic that's coming out in about a month.

Yeah, I expect Fallen Friend to end with the announcement for the Classified book, Reborn Anew. Cyclops will probably decide to bring her back in that issue, after talking to the Champions.

[FFJamie94]

I wouldn’t be suprised if Marvel/Disney are just trying to sabatage Spider-Man because they are still bitter about Sony owning the Movie rights.

[Lee]

I wouldn’t be suprised if Marvel/Disney are just trying to sabatage Spider-Man because they are still bitter about Sony owning the Movie rights.

Can you expand upon this? How would that even work?

[Garlador]

Can you expand upon this? How would that even work?

It was confirmed by multiple sources that Disney/Marvel sabotaged the X-Men comics and media for a time to devalue it. They pushed the Inhumans hard as a replacement, and multiple mutant characters were retconned to no longer be mutants (Wanda, Pietro, Franklin, Squirrel Girl, etc.). Kamala was meant to be a mutant but they forced her to be an Inhuman instead. X-men characters were reduced in crossover media like Marvel vs Capcom, titles were cancelled or merged into other team books, and merchandise was restricted.

So many are assuming they’re doing it again with Spider-Man.

Maybe, but I legitimately think we just got a very poorly-conceived and executed story.